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A United/Moyes Revalation

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Ashtonian

Banned on request
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/an-honest-evertonian-account-of-david-moyes.378918/

This was a thread i started on RedCafe, a united site a couple of months back. IT was not meant to be an argumentative piece, simply an honest view on our former manager to gauge reaction from the United fans on there. Whether you agree with my piece or not it makes interesting reading.

The reason why i post this up is simply because if you read the comments throughout you will see a change in opinion towards myself and my views. For those to lazy to read it starts with 'well this is interesting, we should watch out', followed by a mass 'you don't know what you are talking about, you should be grateful Moyes was a miracle worker'.

I had given up on the thread a long time ago until i recieved an email telling me there had been further additions to the thread, and what a response! It came after the Newcastle game and basically fans were going back to my thread saying, 'oh **** he was spot on what he said'. The atitude went from your wrong to your right, in the space of about 4 weeks.
 
Here's what Chris wrote

First things first, I am a Toffee/Evertonian/Blue. Before any accusations come in about me being x Y and Z. I thought it would be of great interest to everyone here to write an informative and genuine view on your new Messiah David Moyes. This is not a rant or gloat or anything like that, this is simply an honest reflection on our former manager that has moved onto bigger and better things.

Right, When Moyes took over at Everton we were falling apart under Walter Smith. An aging crap team that was treading water every season was the norm whilst you were winning titles and cups. The change Moyes brought to the club was refreshing and apart from the second full season (2003-2004 I think) we enjoyed prosperity. I think during this time Moyes had some of his most inspired signings such as Cahill, Arteta, Pienarr, Lescott, Jagielka, Baines to name a few. The quality of the team back then was fantastic and with a bit more investment (story of our club) we would have broken the glass ceiling well and truly. As the years passed the terrible way the club was ran started to take effect and Moyes was given the lack of investment he truly needed to advance us on, but in light of this still kept us going at the right end of the table. This is to Moyes’s credit to be fair as most managers would have walked (O’Neill anyone). By the end, quite the majority of fans were happy to let Moyes leave for many different reasons and I feel like the change-over to Martinez has been refreshing for us. For any sceptics or doom merchants amongst you, here are the reasons why I felt the change was needed.

1. Moyes was not a winner. The most frustrating thing about Moyes was the lack of bottle when we needed it by the end of his tenure. We had a league cup semi against 10 men Chelsea (2008) and we bottled it. We were 1 nil up against Chelsea in the F.A cup final 2009, and bottled it. The F.A Cup semi Final against the Kopites (2012) was embarrassing for us and it was not the fact we lost, it was David Moyes’s role that got to the fans. In I think 44 trips to Old Trafford, Analfield, Stamford Bridge and Arsenal’s grounds we won exactly NONE. We went there to play for a point rather than the win. I think Moyes only won 3 derbies in his whole time on Merseyside because of the way we approached the game. When it was all said and done, in 11 years, Moyes never sent us out to actually be winners and this is the biggest reason why we are glad to see him gone.

2. His refusal to play his squad. This was fantastic by Moyes over the 11 years in my opinion. As each year passed, it became clear he stuck with the same 11 every game no matter how they were playing. I think in 2011-12 we spent the first half of the season with Saha and Cahill as our strikers, after selling Arteta, Yakubu and Beckford that summer. Saha and Cahill between them must have scored like 2 goals, yet played every game. Moyes threw the same tactics at every team and it meant every season, every game the other team would have us sussed out before the whistle had gone. Everyone knew the ball would go to Baines and before him Arteta so every team shut those players down and it cost us. The likes of Yakubu were shipped out the club for, to this day unknown reasons despite him being our best striker since Tony Cottee in the 90’s. Youth players never got a look in under Moyes despite the general view of them doing the opposite. Rodwell when fit was played wherever he was needed, so central mid, left wing, behind the striker etc., Rooney was in and out of the team, Barkley was apparently not good enough a few months ago and that is about it. No-one else has genuinely broken through into our team under Moyes and as a result we have watched our younger players drift away from their potential. The best example of youth was Vellios in 2011-12; he was voted our young player of the season despite not kicking a ball after November. To this day we have no idea why he was dropped, as he played, scored a couple of goals including against Chelsea and then after starting against Fulham and not having the best game, we never saw him again. We have quite a few prospects coming through now so it is a massive relief not to have that man blocking their development and if you are wondering why Zaha, Janjuzi etc. are not getting enough game time, this is why. He was always fearful of taking those sorts of risks, and that is why they never progressed out the club.

3. Moyes tactics were terrible. He won quite a few games for us so credit where credit is due he is not terrible at this, but his decisions and choices were one of the reasons we never progressed beyond the best of the rest. I will give three examples of Moyes as a tactician at his best to illustrate this point. Sunderland 2010, away. We scored after 6 minutes of the game and proceeded to defend like it was the last 6 minutes which inevitably led to Sunderland scoring, Welbeck I think. We then started playing again, which unfortunately against the run of play Welbeck scored again. Moyes then didn’t make a change for 20 minutes before bringing Beckford and Yakubu on in the 83rd minute, by then we were out of the game almost. We pegged them back again but 15 minute earlier we could have won. Example 2 was Newcastle away, the same season I think. Ryan Taylor scores a wonder goal to put us one down, which Jagielka then equalises and we concede another by 40 minutes. Neville pulls up injured and we need to make a change, losing still Moyes brings him off and brings Distin on, moving Heitinga our centre half into midfield. End result, we create nothing in the second half and lose by that score line. Now the third example is the best and I will be fearful of this happening to you. We had Sunderland in the F.A cup a couple seasons back and in midweek a Derby game. The Kopites are terrible and there for the taking, but Moyes plays our second string team and sends them out without any direction. We lose 3-0 Gerrard hat trick and a lot of pride in the process. We go on to draw Sunderland after all that and go to a replay so the Derby surrender was for nothing in the end. We get to the semi-final and play the Kopites again, who were still no better than they were a month earlier. We go one nil up thanks to a Carragher mistake and lose the game two one due to a mistake by Distin and Rat boy’s typical derby goal. The reason I mention this however is that when we came out for the second half, we were defending deep in our own half. In the end we basically waited for them to beat us rather than outclassing them like we could have done.


Hopefully this is a good indication what awaits you with David Moyes in the coming years. There are a million and one things I could say but hopefully this is a good indication why our former manager alienated the fan base. If anyone was interested, Sunderland away was the moment I stopped supporting him, and Liverpool the following season is when I wanted him out. I am happy he walked because he did a great job under his circumstances with the board but ultimately the only thing that stopped us progressing was him.
 
There's then a gap of a month until the beginning of December and then the following is posted by various members.

Huge Bump, Read the first page
Looks like the Honest Evertonian was right all along.
I never read this discussion before but it is very interesting reading it now. That is all I can say.
OP makes for depressing reading.
Never read this thread before,OP feels like reading an investigative report on a criminal right now
My previously sarcastic post now looks like it's actually coming true.

****.
We'll let you off mate, I like Utd have done since Bestie and in all seriousness Moyes simply is not good enough to manage at the very top level.
some one paste the OP's post in the main forum. this is important for all to read.

it is not as if moyes is doing anything different here. this is moyes.

we need to push the man out before he destroys the club.
Think I read it when it was posted but didn't take it that seriously. OP an Incredible read really
People had a go at the OP and called him all sorts. Looks like he was spot on about Moyes.
There's definitely a lot in that first post that we are seeing already.
It's actually scary how depressingly accurate the OP has turned out to be.
If Moyes was getting the results he is now with Everton people would be wondering if Everton should consider going in a different direction. He has never been this bad.
 

Thanks Bung's, uncomfortably helpful for you, everything okay like?

Good effort Chris, I haven't read the initial comments to your OP, but noticed that those pro Moyles on the Caffie used to claim that such historic comments by us were down to bitterness...
 
Youth players never got a look in under Moyes despite the general view of them doing the opposite. Rodwell when fit was played wherever he was needed, so central mid, left wing, behind the striker etc., Rooney was in and out of the team, Barkley was apparently not good enough a few months ago and that is about it. No-one else has genuinely broken through into our team under Moyes and as a result we have watched our younger players drift away from their potential. The best example of youth was Vellios in 2011-12; he was voted our young player of the season despite not kicking a ball after November. To this day we have no idea why he was dropped, as he played, scored a couple of goals including against Chelsea and then after starting against Fulham and not having the best game, we never saw him again. We have quite a few prospects coming through now so it is a massive relief not to have that man blocking their development and if you are wondering why Zaha, Janjuzi etc. are not getting enough game time, this is why. He was always fearful of taking those sorts of risks, and that is why they never progressed out the club.

Excellent stuff there mate. Thumbs up
 
Except he is playing Januzaj.

And if they and he turn it all around their opinions will flip back to how they were.

And as for Vellios, it's pretty clear he has serious attitude problems and is not fancied (bad choice of word because he's dead sexy) by anyone at the club. And that's under the Moyes reign AND now.
 

Except he is playing Januzaj.

And if they and he turn it all around their opinions will flip back to how they were.

And as for Vellios, it's pretty clear he has serious attitude problems and is not fancied (bad choice of word because he's dead sexy) by anyone at the club. And that's under the Moyes reign AND now.

He's only started 6 games tbf

Typical Moyes picking Nani/Young over the lad imo
 
I posted more on the thread personally but the point i tried to get accross when questioned on it by the united fans was that Moyes could have taken us further. I can appreciate the lack of money holding us back, and perhaps with more money and a higher wage bill to pay more players we could have been higher in the league under Moyes.

However it was Moyes's atitude on a weekly basis i think held us back. Going out in the Semi against the red****e and defending from half time was not a player thing, it was what the manager told them to do. Giving reading their first win last season and almost doing the same at QPR a week or so later was Moyes lets be careful here attitude rather than we are better than them. When we played the SKY4 away, we didn't play the team in front of us, we played the greatest team in their history. Every Anfield Derby we played Keegan, Dagliesh, Rush etc rather than Henderson, Downing, Kuyt etc. If Moyes had given us a more positive atitude on a weekly basis, we could have been 10 points or more better off each season towards the end, which would have made us come close to the top 4 i'm sure.

As for the Youth thing, Name one young player under Moyes that you can pick out to say he has benefited from his managment? That is what scares me in Hindsight, only Anichebe outlasted Moyes as a youth player, but he was a right winger for large portions of his time here?! I'm pretty sure if Vaughn had not been injury prone then he would have been here and Victor long gone but we will never know that sadly.
 
We have to remember tho that Moyes didn't give our team a chance, his quote on taking his team to Anfield "I finally can take a winning team" he could be different with Man u.
 
We have to remember tho that Moyes didn't give our team a chance, his quote on taking his team to Anfield "I finally can take a winning team" he could be different with Man u.

And got beaten 1-0

Ginger tit

Said it from day one, He will end up at Celtic within 2 years
 

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