Sandhills station

[Bluebonic]

I’ll be doing my first trial run at the next test event, train into Moorfield, then a gentle toodle along to the ground. I’m hoping my stumpy (though rapid) little legs can do the walk in under 30 minutes. The time isn't an issue as such unless its absolutely lashing it down, at which point it would become a critical factor.

 

[Streetender1878]

Priory road from utting avenue to walton lane full of coaches for their own #fanz. Walton lane down the side of stanley park 11 double decker stagecoach busses all parked up waiting for their #fanz. All well within 30 minutes walk to their ground. If it can be done for them it can be done for us as well.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Priory road from utting avenue to walton lane full of coaches for their own #fanz. Walton lane down the side of stanley park 11 double decker stagecoach busses all parked up waiting for their #fanz. All well within 30 minutes walk to their ground. If it can be done for them it can be done for us as well.

If I remember rightly, the Transport Plan says there will be almost 30 shuttle buses allocated to BMD for services to town and Bootle from Grt Howard St. It also mentions something similar for a Park and ride route to Stanley Park car park, but I don't think it specifies a number, or if it's for local residents from that area too. Coaches are usually privately hired by supporters clubs and I think will be allocated parking space along or off the Dock Rd itself.

Years ago, there were lots of pubs in the outer suburbs who ran buses to the match at Goodison. Of course, increased car ownership killed that off. However, unlike the other lot, we still have a predominantly local support that might be able to do similar for those areas that haven't got any direct bus/train services to the general area. Hopefully, in the medium to longer term that section of waterfront will get its own dedicated services as Liverpool Waters and Ten Streets develops. Perhaps the impending UEFA tournament will release funding for some new infrastructure.... as well as the Gliders.

 

[davek]

If I remember rightly, the Transport Plan says there will be almost 30 shuttle buses allocated to BMD for services to town and Bootle from Grt Howard St. It also mentions something similar for a Park and ride route to Stanley Park car park, but I don't think it specifies a number, or if it's for local residents from that area too. Coaches are usually privately hired by supporters clubs and I think will be allocated parking space along or off the Dock Rd itself.

Years ago, there were lots of pubs in the outer suburbs who ran buses to the match at Goodison. Of course, increased car ownership killed that off. However, unlike the other lot, we still have a predominantly local support that might be able to do similar for those areas that haven't got any direct bus/train services to the general area. Hopefully, in the medium to longer term that section of waterfront will get its own dedicated services as Liverpool Waters and Ten Streets develops. Perhaps the impending UEFA tournament will release funding for some new infrastructure.... as well as the Gliders.

...hold on, you've been referring me to the Transport Plan over the last week and you dont even have it to hand yourself?!

Lol.

 

[Amw79]

...hold on, you've been referring me to the Transport Plan over the last week and you dont even have it to hand yourself?!

Lol.

Here ya go, dunno if this was the latest version, but I had this stashed away

 

[davek]

Here ya go, dunno if this was the latest version, but I had this stashed away

Many thanks mate.

Neither in that nor the subsequent Transport Assessment from Mott MacDonald is there anything that suggests the Transport Plan was the sole responsibility or 'led' by any one body.

In that September 2020 Transport Strategy summary paper you supplied it states:


3.1.2 The proposed strategy has been discussed in detail with Liverpool City Council, Merseytravel, Merseyrail and bus operators, and has been agreed by all stakeholders in the current form, prior to planning submission.

This was a joint venture and underlines what the later detailed document says about this being a transport plan put together by key stakeholders in the local state, police, transport bodies and other local authorities. The Transport Plan was put together by them and the strategy they devised for its implementation was to be carried forward by the Transport Working Group.

I'm still not sure where the claim made by others that transportation was all driven by Everton and any failure to see the mess to come should be placed at the club's door. That's an empty claim.

 

[Tom Hughes]

...hold on, you've been referring me to the Transport Plan over the last week and you dont even have it to hand yourself?!

Lol.

I do have the original somewhere yes , but don't feel the need to reference any detail. I read all of it when it was first published a few years ago, and voiced my concerns/reservations on here and at Shareholders meetings then, and on a few occasions since. I've revisited parts of it a few times, to see if there have been any revisions or additional detail.

You obviously never read it.

Lol

 

[Tom Hughes]

Many thanks mate.

Neither in that nor the subsequent Transport Assessment from Mott MacDonald is there anything that suggests the Transport Plan was the sole responsibility or 'led' by any one body.

In that September 2020 Transport Strategy summary paper you supplied it states:


3.1.2 The proposed strategy has been discussed in detail with Liverpool City Council, Merseytravel, Merseyrail and bus operators, and has been agreed by all stakeholders in the current form, prior to planning submission.

This was a joint venture and underlines what the later detailed document says about this being a transport plan put together by key stakeholders in the local state, police, transport bodies and other local authorities. The Transport Plan was put together by them and the strategy they devised for its implementation was to be carried forward by the Transport Working Group.

I'm still not sure where the claim made by others that transportation was all driven by Everton and any failure to see the mess to come should be placed at the club's door. That's an empty claim.

You're desperate to drag this on for some reason, aren't you?

Who has said that it was the sole responsibility of the club to produce a tranport strategy? No-one!

Obviously, several bodies have to be involved, where all the issues, including existing infrastructure/capacity, matchday transport modelling using consultation/fanbase data, available additional resources and local/national budget/funding etc.... are all discussed. However, ultimately the Transport Plan is part of the club's own planning application and the assessment is put together by their experts. It has to be agreed to by all parties..... and the on-going Transport Working Group is chaired by the Football Club itself, and has been from the start.

Where have you been for the last 3+ yrs? Why is any of this a sudden realisation for you? If you had read it at the start.... the vagueness and repeated references to 30 min walking distances and the fanciful projected 60:40 modal shift would've told you enough. Let's hope that there were no arse-covering "hidden clauses" used to push the planning app through.

 

[davek]

You're desperate to drag this on for some reason, aren't you?
Who has said that it was the sole responsibility of the club to produce a tranport strategy? No-one!
Obviously, several bodies have to be involved, where all the issues, including existing infrastructure/capacity, matchday transport modelling using consultation/fanbase data, available additional resources and local/national budget/funding etc.... are all discussed. However, ultimately the Transport Plan is part of the club's own planning application and the assessment is put together by their experts. It has to be agreed to by all parties..... and the on-going Transport Working Group is chaired by the Football Club itself, and has been from the start.

Where have you been for the last 3+ yrs? Why is any of this a sudden realisation for you? If you had read it at the start.... the vagueness and repeated references to 30 min walking distances and the fanciful projected 60:40 modal shift would've told you enough. Let's hope that there were no arse-covering "hidden clauses" used to push the planning app through.

You're walking back your original claims about this all being down to the "Everton-led" transport plan.

Mott MacDonald may have been hired by Everton but they conducted a review of the issues surrounding the delivery of a workable transport solution and arrived at a plan of action by consulting the local experts on transportation - they weren't Everton were they?

It's only now you're edging back toward agreeing that this was a multi-organisational document from all stakeholders involved and therefore any talk about Everton being on the hook for the mess at Sandhills (and elsewhere around this new stadium) and they are at the apex of a hierarchy of blame for that mess.

As for "where have you been in the last 3+ years?"...

....so much for your assumption my interest in the transportation issue is a short run thing...

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

September 24, 2022

The car park on that island won't be for regular punters. It will be officialls and top tier corporates.

I'm pretty sure loads of pop up car parks will appear East of Regent Road. (Pretty sure Regent Road will be closed 2 hrs before/1 hr after the match)

It will be. It says so in the stadium transportation documents. Regent Road and more besides (Boundary Street for sure).

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

October 17, 2022

A few pages ago we were talking about Sandhills Station . I found this on the stadium website. Seems to suggest that EFC will fund the upgrade.

<< In readiness for an increase in numbers, the Club is set to upgrade facilities at nearby Sandhills train station, following a fan survey held back in 2018 which suggested that 60% of fans wanted to use public transport. >>

Why on earth should Everton fund it?

Can you imagine FSG digging into their piggy bank to fund a railway station when their club stadium had generated billions for the local economy?

Let the scab council ask...

• davek

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

November 17, 2022

Surely if the Euro bid is successful and Everton get one of the stadium slots there'll be cash available to improve transportation?

It happens in all these major events. Maybe the Vauxhall station becomes a runner at that point.

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

October 29, 2022

A few perhaps? But would it be enough?Obviously I haven't done a survey or anything. And I appreciate we have a high % of fans walking to the game. But there's no transport hub that way and I'd imagine most would either park closer the ground or walk/taxi from town or Sandhills?

The Northen Line to the game will be jammed and there'll be shuttle bus service into town. I'd expect a lot of walk ups to the stadium though.

The area of Scotland Road / Vauxhall cant help but be reinvigorated. What would Walton be without Everton? We're about to find that out, I suppose.

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

November 17, 2022

Surely if the Euro bid is successful and Everton get one of the stadium slots there'll be cash available to improve transportation?

It happens in all these major events. Maybe the Vauxhall station becomes a runner at that point.

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

November 17, 2022

That's one of my thoughts.

Old Trafford is in an industrial estate, etihad campus has a tram and it's surrounded by sports stuff.

If we can get more transport in-bedded (think we are anyway surely for the 10 streets) and get another station, or even trams, it'll be amazing.

Part of the deal with the World Cup, Euros, Olympics etc is that national governments and supra-national organisations can had out contracts to the private sector for infrastructure. The Ukraine-Poland bid saw $38B spent just on infrastructure improvements including transportation systems a decade ago. The...

• davek

• 

Overall though the line you've taken concerning the 'responsibility' of a private company that's invested £700M of its own money to fund a stadium project - that the local state have been desperate for to happen to boost their own regeneration plans in north Liverpool - in 'creating' a transportation mess has been mind boggling.

Factually it doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny, and in terms of a common sense approach to assessing where the fault lies it's off the charts ridiculous.

The responsibility lies with the local authorities and their failure to both fund their own nearby development projects and their failure to get funding for transportation that mitigates the stadium shortcomings...something the preposterous Mayor of the LCR now apparently gets and is now talking non-stop about 'gliders': because he's had a bomb put under his arse.

 

[Streetender1878]

If I remember rightly, the Transport Plan says there will be almost 30 shuttle buses allocated to BMD for services to town and Bootle from Grt Howard St. It also mentions something similar for a Park and ride route to Stanley Park car park, but I don't think it specifies a number, or if it's for local residents from that area too. Coaches are usually privately hired by supporters clubs and I think will be allocated parking space along or off the Dock Rd itself.

Years ago, there were lots of pubs in the outer suburbs who ran buses to the match at Goodison. Of course, increased car ownership killed that off. However, unlike the other lot, we still have a predominantly local support that might be able to do similar for those areas that haven't got any direct bus/train services to the general area. Hopefully, in the medium to longer term that section of waterfront will get its own dedicated services as Liverpool Waters and Ten Streets develops. Perhaps the impending UEFA tournament will release funding for some new infrastructure.... as well as the Gliders.

Thanks Tom. The public transport isnt great from the north end of the city and i hope the club and council puts in place services for older people and the disabled who need dropping off as near to the new ground as possible. Gliders are a great idea and i look forward to the formation of the Walton Air Cavalry helicoptor division. "We play Z Cars. Scares the **** out of the kopites."

 

[ultra]

Chatting with my mate, a Man City STH: he said when they moved grounds, City put out a list of car parks that were being made available by private firms etc. What a great idea!

It would help those who travel from the eastward direction (Walton/East Lancs Rd etc), which is a black hole that doesnt exist, according to the laughable transport "plans".

 

[Connor]

Brilliant I will be going from the other end could you pick us up some Belgian ice buns first home game they're Boss in there cheers

I'll be bringing these. Absolute 10/10.

 

[No Alla Violenza]

Chatting with my mate, a Man City STH: he said when they moved grounds, City put out a list of car parks that were being made available by private firms etc. What a great idea!

It would help those who travel from the eastward direction (Walton/East Lancs Rd etc), which is a black hole that doesnt exist, according to the laughable transport "plans".

Great idea

 

[Tom Hughes]

You're walking back your original claims about this all being down to the "Everton-led" transport plan.

Mott MacDonald may have been hired by Everton but they conducted a review of the issues surrounding the delivery of a workable transport solution and arrived at a plan of action by consulting the local experts on transportation - they weren't Everton were they?

It's only now you're edging back toward agreeing that this was a multi-organisational document from all stakeholders involved and therefore any talk about Everton being on the hook for the mess at Sandhills (and elsewhere around this new stadium) and they are at the apex of a hierarchy of blame for that mess.

As for "where have you been in the last 3+ years?"...

....so much for your assumption my interest in the transportation issue is a short run thing...

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

September 24, 2022

The car park on that island won't be for regular punters. It will be officialls and top tier corporates.

I'm pretty sure loads of pop up car parks will appear East of Regent Road. (Pretty sure Regent Road will be closed 2 hrs before/1 hr after the match)

It will be. It says so in the stadium transportation documents. Regent Road and more besides (Boundary Street for sure).

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

October 17, 2022

A few pages ago we were talking about Sandhills Station . I found this on the stadium website. Seems to suggest that EFC will fund the upgrade.

<< In readiness for an increase in numbers, the Club is set to upgrade facilities at nearby Sandhills train station, following a fan survey held back in 2018 which suggested that 60% of fans wanted to use public transport. >>

Why on earth should Everton fund it?

Can you imagine FSG digging into their piggy bank to fund a railway station when their club stadium had generated billions for the local economy?

Let the scab council ask...

• davek

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

November 17, 2022

Surely if the Euro bid is successful and Everton get one of the stadium slots there'll be cash available to improve transportation?

It happens in all these major events. Maybe the Vauxhall station becomes a runner at that point.

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

October 29, 2022

A few perhaps? But would it be enough?Obviously I haven't done a survey or anything. And I appreciate we have a high % of fans walking to the game. But there's no transport hub that way and I'd imagine most would either park closer the ground or walk/taxi from town or Sandhills?

The Northen Line to the game will be jammed and there'll be shuttle bus service into town. I'd expect a lot of walk ups to the stadium though.

The area of Scotland Road / Vauxhall cant help but be reinvigorated. What would Walton be without Everton? We're about to find that out, I suppose.

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

November 17, 2022

Surely if the Euro bid is successful and Everton get one of the stadium slots there'll be cash available to improve transportation?

It happens in all these major events. Maybe the Vauxhall station becomes a runner at that point.

• davek

• 

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium'

November 17, 2022

That's one of my thoughts.

Old Trafford is in an industrial estate, etihad campus has a tram and it's surrounded by sports stuff.

If we can get more transport in-bedded (think we are anyway surely for the 10 streets) and get another station, or even trams, it'll be amazing.

Part of the deal with the World Cup, Euros, Olympics etc is that national governments and supra-national organisations can had out contracts to the private sector for infrastructure. The Ukraine-Poland bid saw $38B spent just on infrastructure improvements including transportation systems a decade ago. The...

• davek

• 

Overall though the line you've taken concerning the 'responsibility' of a private company that's invested £700M of its own money to fund a stadium project - that the local state have been desperate for to happen to boost their own regeneration plans in north Liverpool - in 'creating' a transportation mess has been mind boggling.

Factually it doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny, and in terms of a common sense approach to assessing where the fault lies it's off the charts ridiculous.

The responsibility lies with the local authorities and their failure to both fund their own nearby development projects and their failure to get funding for transportation that mitigates the stadium shortcomings...something the preposterous Mayor of the LCR now apparently gets and is now talking non-stop about 'gliders': because he's had a bomb put under his arse.

I'm not going back on any claims at all.... I've worked on several major transport schemes, I know precisely how they work and the outcome of this planning process is well-documented. I clearly stated my concerns and reservations years ago, when you were still claiming it wouldn't happen, or were going on about Dock Walls, Wind Generators and patterns in Brickwork..... or speculating/arguing that others were going to pay.... this is just your latest pet peeve.

As I said at the beginning, if you can show that the authorities or any agency have reneged on any agreed provision or investment, then feel free to show it. If I have missed it, then I would certainly welcome it. You haven't done that! You're still making claims, speculating about the subjectivity of who's responsibility it is to do whatever, after the fact. That fact is (that holds up to all scrutiny), the plans WERE AGREED and as far as the club and various authorities are concerned they are adequate.... with their fallback wiggle room taken up by "walking"....! You can go round and round about who should pay for what..... but it is meaningless, when that was all agreed several years ago!

Whatever the club spent is irrelevant. All that will have been covered in the initial negotiations and the subsequent planning process. All that matters in terms of legal responsibility and obligations is what was agreed. All the council had to say during the whole process is they're skint or that they have far bigger priorities than funding infrastructure for a fortnightly event venue owned by a billionaire etc, and any improvements would have to be fully or partially funded by the club, as was the case for both Spurs or Arsenal and their respective planning authorities. You can go round and round about who should've paid for what..... but it is meaningless when that was all agreed years ago!

As regards other transport projects, they can also say that they have their own timeline based on CBRs and are dictated by available funding/budgets etc, and/or that those budgetary priorities were the roll out of a whole fleet of new trains etc. Again, regardless of that, Vauxhall Stn is not part of the ACTUAL transport plan.

If/when it turns out that the Transport Plans are inadequate, or worse and it decends into chaos at the next test events, or later when operational (when the new matchday habits begin to establish)..... then the club/authorities will probably say that they clearly stated that the stadium required the 60:40 modal shift, or less people walked than our consultation process suggested etc.... Who knows, there may even be capacity-capping clauses agreed (By all parties), as there were with Destination Kirkby.

 

[Bryan+]

Good god