6 + 2 Point Deductions

Seems to me between the PL and those snide half dozen clubs who blame us for their relegation just want to wipe us out.

We just cannot make ends meet so likely we will keep getting hit with these unfair PS rules. They talk of us starting the new season with minus points, how can that be ? The relegated clubs could argue that should have been applied at the end of this season and seen us go down.

Good article in the ECHO covering these points.
 
Can't believe the pundits' wetting themselves with excitement about them. They're 18th and without the points deductions they'd be a clear 4 points adrift of 17th and they're only achievement is being slightly less crap than Sheffield United and Burnley.
Been of the opinion just like VAR it's about creating content for Premier League Productions what better contrast than Luton being able to play Man Utd in the same league... Football is so just!
 
Can't believe the pundits' wetting themselves with excitement about them. They're 18th and without the points deductions they'd be a clear 4 points adrift of 17th and they're only achievement is being slightly less crap than Sheffield United and Burnley.

I was listening to Gary Neville the other day speaking about how the “pyramid needs stories like Luton in the Premier League”, it didn’t sit right with me at all. It all feels very much stage managed, a narrative is being seeded here.
 
They haven't labelled ours as higher tier breaches.

Not picking on you, but it surprises me how much misinformation there is knocking about when the reports are there in public record for all 4 verdicts so far

Ignore the 10 point verdict for a moment as it served only to eventually settle on an approximate benchmark for PSR deductions once the appeal was heard.

To give you the very abridged versions:

Everton - 6 points. Appeal docs didn't originally state how this was calculated, but we were given no credit for any of our arguments as to mitigation. 6 points was deemed to be appropriate for a breach of that level (£19.5m). It was later revealed in the FY23 decision report that the Appeal Board in this case increased an initial three-point penalty (now accepted as the starting penalty for any PSR breach) by one point for every £6.5 million or so and that "a breach in the order of 20%' was deserving of an additional three points, or one point for every 6.67% over the Upper Loss Threshold"

Nottingham Forest - 4 points. The penalty itself was set at 6 points but Forest were credited 2 points back for early admission of guilt and exceptional co-operation. None of their other points of mitigation were accepted. The £34.5m breach was deemed to be "significant" by the commission who, because Forest's breach overlapped into their EFL years with lower thresholds, said "The Commission considers that it would assist to band breaches into “minor”, “significant” or “major” breaches, to remove the focus on the absolute number, especially when different PSR Thresholds can apply." They did assert that a starting point of three points would be the benchmark for ANY PSR penalty, with the additional points added based on the severity of the breach.

Everton - 2 points. The commission in this case rejected the Forest commission's methodology of banding breaches into categories. Instead they settled on a formula of 3 points for a breach (as per the Forest commission) but also rejected the formula used by the Everton FY22 appeal board of about £6.5m per point penalty. Instead they decided the breach here exceeded the Upper Loss Threshold by 15.8%. They believed that was less than “in the order of 20%” and meant an extra 3 points would be too much, so 2 points seemed the right amount to add onto the starting position of 3. The commission accepted the double jeopardy argument and said that since the latest FY23 losses were 51.6% of the overall PSR loss, they would deduct 2 points from the 5 based on the fact that they could only deal in whole numbers. We were then given credit for early admission and that, combined with the evidenced loss of revenue of the USM Finch Farm deal, was enough to constitute another point reduction, bringing it down to 2.

The major issue which sort of gets missed (because hundreds of pages of legal speak is too much for your average fan to want to digest) is that all 4 hearing outcomes have resulted in different methodologies applied when coming up with the penalty.

I couldn't recall the wording and used "higher tier" but i meant was Upper Loss Threshold breach.

It was a reply based that some believed Forest had a lower deduction because there's was a lower threshold breach.
That's wasn't the case.

I was then backing up what you've said in that....due to no real framework initially, they've made up reasoning that they've then altered along 4 commissions. We also used the percentage to threshold as a defence.

I wasn't intentionally spreading misinformation.
 

I was listening to Gary Neville the other day speaking about how the “pyramid needs stories like Luton in the Premier League”, it didn’t sit right with me at all. It all feels very much stage managed, a narrative is being seeded here.
Whether it’s the Luton ‘story ‘ , the title or the relegation battle between deductions and VAR it’s all got the feel of WWE type storylines .

Without the loss of points I suspect the relegation issue could be close to be settled and all discussion a week or so from being done . All those up straight down but now we may well go to the last day at both ends of the table with multiple teams involved and many of them moaning about decisions made both on and off the field .

I’ve spent a long time trying not to believe in conspiracy theories but the longer this rubbish goes on the more those talking about them sound plausible.
 
Whether it’s the Luton ‘story ‘ , the title or the relegation battle between deductions and VAR it’s all got the feel of WWE type storylines .

Without the loss of points I suspect the relegation issue could be close to be settled and all discussion a week or so from being done . All those up straight down but now we may well go to the last day at both ends of the table with multiple teams involved and many of them moaning about decisions made both on and off the field .

I’ve spent a long time trying not to believe in conspiracy theories but the longer this rubbish goes on the more those talking about them sound plausible.
Mate, they're already lauding our final match against Arsenal as some sort of 'Title/Relegation Decider Extravaganz'!
 
The league has been manipulated for eternal scab six gain and they've played a blinder with the help of Sly Sports and the media.
The Scab six run by oil states and U.S capitalists cozy up together.
Create in fighting between six or more of the other 14 and the Status quo is preserved indefinitely.
Make no mistake a lot of thought has gone into this scenario we now exist in.
Divide and Rule - and count the spoils together.
 
I am happy that luton dope said what he did think we needed this and same with forest case saying how bad we acted. No other teams in this league are allied with everton, why i dont want shared protest when we play forest.hope we can carry this anger now and push the team on with hopefully a positive result in the appeal to really throw on back in the faces of the league and the other clubs coyb
 

Seems to me between the PL and those snide half dozen clubs who blame us for their relegation just want to wipe us out.

We just cannot make ends meet so likely we will keep getting hit with these unfair PS rules. They talk of us starting the new season with minus points, how can that be ? The relegated clubs could argue that should have been applied at the end of this season and seen us go down.

Good article in the ECHO covering these points.
Was thinking this today about the takeover can we not use this for the pst could prevent us from making new sponsorship deals and bringing new money into the club. How can we move forward if the club is left inbetween a takeover and expect to move on when the owner wants out
 
I think that the City thing is bigger than City and that's where the problem lies. I have a feeling that more clubs than just City will be implicated, leading to a situation where entire seasons will be effectively defunct. This could be bigger than the collapse of the Italian leagues dominant position in European football.

I say bring it on. I can't wait.
I can see your logic but personally the only way I see it as “bigger than City” is that the whole thing has a political element.

The Government has openly confirmed apparently that it has held talks with Abu Dhabi about the charges and given the Government’s close watch on the PL at the minute, I imagine Masters etc wants to keep them sweet
 
I just read a 2 day old tweet from our esteemed friend the Esk in which he says the additional hearing could leave the prospect of legal action open if a club were relegated when they wouldn’t have been if our entire case had been dealt with.

For me this is nonsense because the accounting period currently being looked at is before this season so if Luton get relegated and we subsequently get another 2 points that is irrelevant to the period Luton were in the PL.

Seems the esk is scaremongering on a different subject now the 777 takeover appears to be stalling as he has campaigned for.
 
If there is to be an incoming ‘clean slate’, then it will be ‘from now on’. The rules will still be applicable to the time period leading up to the clean slate, meaning yet more point deductions for clubs next season.

I want the complete removal of these rules and a return to how things were before FFP. Clubs shouldn’t even need inflated sponsorships, as clubs should be allowed to spend whatever they want!

I’m glad that Manchester City haven’t had any punishments, and I’m absolutely okay with them winning everything in sight at the expense of Liverpool FC. Long may it continue!
It won't be that it will be a clean slate, nobody else will get points deductions, The pl would be taken to a real court and have their asses handed to them if they tried to enforce punishments for old rules.. City's lawyers would make a mockery of that, at minium they'd argue that the reason the rules were changed was because they weren't fit for purpose so punishment based on rules not fit for purpose shouldn't be given. Unfortunately we happen to have been in slight breach when the PL really needed a pawn to throw to the wolves in their battle against external regulation, we happened to be the right sized club for them not small enough that it gets minimal coverage not big enough that it goes on for months just right that there's a week or 2 of coverage and it's done.
 
I was listening to Gary Neville the other day speaking about how the “pyramid needs stories like Luton in the Premier League”, it didn’t sit right with me at all. It all feels very much stage managed, a narrative is being seeded here.
This is exactly what people need to understand, and I'm surprised so many don't. The PL and Sky don't care about things like history and sporting merit. They care about generating a television audience. To do that they need "engaging stories" that cater to their audience. Since most of their audience is going to be glory hunting scab six supporters, they will always try to keep them near the top with favorable treatment. They can also generate an "underdog" story about how little Luton stood against established premier league cheats Everton. A club who spent half a billion on players and still got relegated.

They have no desire to tell the facts, they want the story. They want eyes on their product week in and week out. They might as well hire WWE writers, because that's what the PL has turned into.
 

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