The Friedkin Group - Dan & Ryan Friedkin [19/07/2024] Purchase Talks Over.

[pfim]

Yes, thats what I thought as well. Though a few posters seemed to think that wasnt an option.

The fact as i see it is if TFG wanted to pay off the loan, they could have done so. Theyve chosen to walk away based on not wanting to provide any more short term capital.

Timewasters.

Time givers in this instance, considering they refinanced the debt that was past due and gave more funds to help finish the stadium.

Is your expectation that they should have put 200 million in the account for two years, plus interest, and just let it sit there? That doesn’t make much financial sense.

 

[Goat]

Time givers in this instance, considering they refinanced the debt that was past due and gave more funds to help finish the stadium.

Is your expectation that they should have put 200 million in the account for two years, plus interest, and just let it sit there? That doesn’t make much financial sense.

Its crazy, people are saying "Just pay the 200m" like its going the shop for a pint of milk.

For me its like you go to look at a house, but the house doesnt have a roof, would you buy the house or ask the owner to fix the roof before you bought it?

 

[MikeH72]

Its crazy, people are saying "Just pay the 200m" like its going the shop for a pint of milk.

For me its like you go to look at a house, but the house doesnt have a roof, would you buy the house or ask the owner to fix the roof before you bought it?

Great analogy. Our owner should fix the mess he has made rather than expect someone else to do it.

 

[allen]

Its crazy, people are saying "Just pay the 200m" like its going the shop for a pint of milk.

For me its like you go to look at a house, but the house doesnt have a roof, would you buy the house or ask the owner to fix the roof before you bought it?

Great analogy. Our owner should fix the mess he has made rather than expect someone else to do it.

There are three outcomes in that scenario, in my house buying experience: the seller agrees to do the work pre-sale, they knock the value of that work off the purchase price (which is what happened when we bought our current house) - or they refuse and the sale falls through.

As the seller, you can only hit the third choice a limited number of times before you accept it needs sorting.

Moshiri must surely be at that realisation now.

 

[brieverton]

Moshiri doesn't want to do anything apart from let others float the club and sell at the price he's not budging on while tanning on his yacht

Yes, it seems that much, at least, is clear. For now.

The immediate pressure may be off, but if there had been, or is, a scenario where Branthwaite had to be sold between now and August, at a discount, in order to fund working capital, then there would be a lot of anger and he will hear that.

What's not clear is what element of this situation can be resolved by negotiation, and what element is an intractable legal problem that cannot be closed off until the court proceedings run their course.

I don't think Moshiri can expect any buyer to make the 777 mess that he created, go away in full. In that context, if there is no room for maneuver there, then we may be stuck in limbo for at least the next two years if not beyond. Perhaps it could be Moshiri does not sell 94% but retains a 10-20% equity stake and some compromise could be reached in that manner.

I take the view that Friedkin may come back in, but its going to be a long wait.

 

[jamieni]

Yes, it seems that much, at least, is clear. For now.

The immediate pressure may be off, but if there had been, or is, a scenario where Branthwaite had to be sold between now and August, at a discount, in order to fund working capital, then there would be a lot of anger and he will hear that.

What's not clear is what element of this situation can be resolved by negotiation, and what element is an intractable legal problem that cannot be closed off until the court proceedings run their course.

I don't think Moshiri can expect any buyer to make the 777 mess that he created, go away in full. In that context, if there is no room for maneuver there, then we may be stuck in limbo for at least the next two years if not beyond. Perhaps it could be Moshiri does not sell 94% but retains a 10-20% equity stake and some compromise could be reached in that manner.

I take the view that Friedkin may come back in, but its going to be a long wait.

I don’t think it’s an intractable problem in that others have suggested potential solutions such as putting funds in escrow (if the correct term) pending the outcome of the case etc. I guess it’s just problem most buyers would like to avoid, or wait out.

I agree that we may see TFG back again at some point. All just seems like gamesmanship to me. Wait it out and try to pick the club up for a bit cheaper.

 

[billyblue80]

Great analogy. Our owner should fix the mess he has made rather than expect someone else to do it.

Agreed and there will come a point where he is forced to

 

[Zatara]

Time givers in this instance, considering they refinanced the debt that was past due and gave more funds to help finish the stadium.

Is your expectation that they should have put 200 million in the account for two years, plus interest, and just let it sit there? That doesn’t make much financial sense.

So if (in my example) the loan was expiring imminently there would be 2 years of interest.

Interesting.

 

[Zatara]

Kieran Maguire

He claimed: ‘They [The Friedkin Group] formally withdrew from the process on Friday. Now, I’ve got to be honest, this story had been leaked on Tuesday/Wednesday to certain parties but not the football club itself.

‘This is how bad things were, that some people were aware that the deal had collapsed, but Everton hadn’t realised that themselves.

‘I think that’s indicative of just how bad things were between Farhad Moshiri and Friedkin Group.’

 

[Blue Willy]

How can you know for sure that someone at the club didnt know?

What some people at the club, or elsewhere may or may not know, or rather, what they may wish to be made aware, are two different things.

Do wish people would stop guess-posting wham as if it were fact. Nobody here knows anything for sure. I bet even the bloody money men at TFG and Mosh himself dont really know whats going on

 

[pfim]

So if (in my example) the loan was expiring imminently there would be 2 years of interest.

Interesting.

So based on your hypothetical you called them time wasters?

Most sources I've read say the loan matures in 2 years. We don't really need a hypothetical.

 

[pfim]

How can you know for sure that someone at the club didnt know?

What some people at the club, or elsewhere may or may not know, or rather, what they may wish to be made aware, are two different things.

Do wish people would stop guess-posting wham as if it were fact. Nobody here knows anything for sure. I bet even the bloody money men at TFG and Mosh himself dont really know whats going on

It's fair, but Moshiri shouldn't be getting any benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Blue Willy]

Yup. Think its just down to his pure greed imo.

 

[Dymak]

Not quite, A-Cap gave the money to 777 and 777 gave it to Everton. They secured the money from A-Cap against 'assets' they own, promising them first option to recover money against those 'assets'. At the same time they got money from Leadenhall and secured that money against the same 'assets' they had promised to A-Cap. Leadenhall discovered this and are now charging them with fraud because obviously they didn't tell them that the assets had already been promised to someone else.

Think of it like having a mortgage on your house (secured against the value of the house) then getting another mortgage from another lender (also secured against the value of the house). If there is any default on payments both lenders go after the value of the asset and they obviously can't both have it. So someone loses the money they have lent with no claim against the asset.

They could get away with it whilst everyone is receiving payments against their loan but as soon as they start to default or looking like they may default, people start looking at the value of the asset and in this case have found that it has been promised to multiple lenders.

It's essentially about who 'owns' the debt as they could take it over from 777 and continue to receive payments. A-Cap claim they own the debt and Leadenhall will claim it is them who own the debt. The 'debt' is essentially an asset as they get payment with interest on the debt or repayment of the debt (unless we go into administration which is not in the interest of any of the lenders as they then get a fraction of the debt value).

But in this example that you give, the two creditors seek to obtain the assets that the loans were secured on, they don’t try and obtain the money from wherever the debtor has spent their money. Say the debtor spent the money on a holiday, the creditor doesn’t get to ask Jet2 Holidays for their money back.

I appreciate that 777 didn’t spend the money on a holiday with Jet 2 Holidays, but they have used their money to provide an UNSECURED loan to Everton. Said loan to Everton has no security from Everton, and no security to either of 777’s creditors. Everton have never been used as an asset to secure any loan involving 777.

My conclusion is that it’s a bit of a reach for either creditor, whether it be A-Cap or Leadenhall to claim they have a right to the money loaned to Everton, when the security for their loans to 777 were other assets, and not Everton Football Club.

Separately, and I know you haven’t made this claim, I don’t for one minute think Everton could possibly be liable when it comes to proceeds of crime or whatever. That’s like saying I would be liable if I took a loan from HSBC, and HSBC were later found to be involved in criminal activities. The FBI would not be looking at me in such circumstances!

 

[MisterJ]

I dont believe Myers. He's doing the club's / Moshiri's bidding trying to placate fans and looking to avoid a slump in morale.

For a supposed journalist, he never seems to have heard / known anything.

It's always "not that I've heard", in response to anything.

There may be a message to him in how highly he ranks in that...