40 things christianity gave the world

[neonleon]

please feel free to shoot down the veracity of these statements if you disagree. Not posting this to enrage people, this is an alehouse and in free countries in ale houses, I think we can talk about this stuff.

1. the moral vacuum that enabled the slave trade
2. the war in iraq
3. cluster bombs - unexploded ordanance will lie in the dust for years, waiting for some little kiddie to stop and play with it. (don't know if christians invented these but they came up with justifications to drop them on villages, indiscrimately killing citizens)
4. banning of contraception leading to overpopulation (in catholics)
5. banning of contraception leading to the spread of AIDS in africa and MILLIONS of needless deaths (in catholics)
6. banning of contraception leading to famine, through a lack of resources (in catholics)
7. the spanish inquisition. Use of torture, burning at the stake of political or enemies in the name of religion.
8. crusades part I
9. crusades part 2
10. crusades part 3
11. crusades part 4
12. crusades part 5 (afghanistan and Iraq)
13. Witch Trials in which some harmless old eccentric dear who kept too many cats; was thrown into a pond and if she floated she was a witch and if she drowned she was innocent. Nice odds.
14. Needless meddling and involvement in suposedly secular societies.
15. The infliction of dogma and dogmatic thought on the human species.
16. A Pope that hedged his bets with Mussolini and then Hitler.
17. Vlad the impaler, the scourge of the muslims, used to dine surrounded by impaled muslims - catholic by all accounts.
18. Colonialism was started by proselytising non-believers in foreign countries. After we took their religion, we thought it only decent to take their land, their culture, their women, their cities etc. Still it was OK, because we were christians and they were just ignorant. Spain did this - christian country. Portugal did this - christian country. Italy did this - christian country. England did this - christian country. France did this - christian country.
19. Genocide of the American Indians. Technically this is one of the few genuine genocides that have ever taken place. The jews were decimated by WW3, but First Nation Americans were comprehensively annihilated. If it weren't for some interbreeding and the fact that the US is such a big country there'd be zero first nations left. Irregardless of that, many distinct tribes were utterly destroyed, men, women and children.
20. The Chruch in all its denominations and flavours - catholic, protestant, methodist etc - covering up for systematic child abuse. Many paedophiles joined the church solely for the unquestioning trusted access to children. When these betrayls came to light, the majority of churches had a policy of hushing it up and simply moving the offending priest to another parish, free to abuse in another area. This went on and on (I have done some studies over this), many times even if the abuser was the most pernicious and aggressive predator towards children, they'd often die of old age before the police would do anything. Hardly any recieved more than a cursory slap on the wrist from their superiors. DONT YOU SEE - THIS ABUSE WASNT EVEN SEEN AS ABNORMAL just perhaps excessive.
21. A War in Ireland that pitted protestant against catholic. (delicate one this as england should shoulder most of the blame, but then england was a christian country back then - it aint anymore, [Poor language removed] like Blair aside).
22. Tony Blair.
23. The continued and systematic meddling in the progression of science and technology. Even today christian pressure groups lobby against things like stem cell research, genetic science etc. We can't play god huh? I bet they accept penicillin and blood transfusions.
24. The continued persecution of minor religions, beliefs and religious practices.
25. The continued persecution of major religions, beliefs and religious practices.
26. Persecution of homosexuals (between consenting adults it grosses out a lot of priests.)
27. Wars and persecution over holy relics, holy lands, holy cities, holy men, jehovah, jehovah, jehovah.
28. Christians tried to stop monty pythons "Life of Brian" from being released.
29. The Christian censorship of many works of literature and art.
30. A moral high ground. Christians are better than everyone else, because they are compassionate and can sell arms at the same time. They can forgive you whilst they blow your brains out. nice.
31. hypocrisy to the enth degree.
32. The imprisonment of Galileo Galilei for Heresy.
33. one of the earlier recorded uses of biological warfare - giving first nation americans blankets infected with smallpox.
34. between the last two presidents of the USA, the only commandment they haven't broken is honour they mother and father.
35. Christianity brought religious intolerance. Catholic roots of antisemitism.
36. America’s funding policy towards the global HIV/Aids epidemic is motivated by political and corporate self-interest - see http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-hiv/article_2028.jsp
37. Sexual guilt. Rut in the fields! fear not that any god shall deny you for this."forgive me lord for imbuing me with a biological purpose."
38. The propagation of blind faith, belief and "ownership of the one true god". Easy to kill indiscrimately if you are "always right" and they are "always wrong". And you are "Gods people" and they are "unbelievers". Now that I think of it, christainity has so much in common with Islam.
39. The Bible, a novel jointly written by an indeterminate number of authors - hence the capricious style. Some people do things today, based on the words of this book they've read. bizarro!
40. Brainwashing of minors into a religion they could have no choice over. Although this is of course propagated by every religion in the world.

If I wanted to gain power tomorrow. And at the realisation of that power use it in the most malevolent of manners, I would not find the christian faith any form of impediment. Indeed I would probably be able to manipulate much benefit from it. It can be used as a framework for any number of atrocities.

now then...am I to be burnt at the stake for heresy?

 

[jtalent1878]

all religion is [Poor language removed].

except scientology.

*awaits alien masters*

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

you forgot christmas. and therefore noddy holders fortune.

football is my religion and i worship at the 1st temple to be built for that purpose, it is the cathedral of the game.
islam has 5 pillars, thats nothin' we have far more than that.

 

[teppic]

reidy. that was quite good.

 

[Walter Ego]

......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I remember reading a study a while back about a chap in Israel. George Tamarin, an Israeli psychologist, had over one thousand Israeli school children, 8-14 years old, read the Biblical story of Joshua's sack of Jericho. He then asked the question "Do you think Joshua and the Israelites acted rightly or not? They had three choices: A) they approved of Joshua actions; B) they partially approved; C) they disapproved. 66% approved and 26% disapproved. The remainder (8%) partially approved. He then slightly modified the story by replacing Joshua with "General Lee" and Israel with "a Chinese kingdom 3,000 years ago." This time he asked for the same responses from a control group of 168 different Israeli children. Now 75% disapproved and only 7% approved of "General Lee's" actions.

For those not familiar with the story, it was suggested by God that Joshua attack Jericho, and God would make the walls of the city fall (or some such), after with Joshua was to kill every living thing inside the city.

The thing that saddens me is how religion is used as justification for some truely horrendous deeds.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

reidy. that was quite good.

i have my moments

few and far between like

i did go to the magistrates court once for basically singing in the street at night (a long time ago), and was asked if i wanted a bible to swear on, i declined, i was asked if there was any other book (it was near burnley so i suppose even back then they would offer koran etc) i asked if they had an Everton programme maybe, i think that then my fate was sealed, my 'arl fella just put his head in his hands.

think i'll add that to my sig. the other bit not this one. eventually my posts will be a full page of sigs.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

can an american explain the israel thing to me please ?
why are they exempt from criticism, why can they oppress the palestinians with total support from whichever party is in power?
i just dont get it, they never seem to be pulled back into line, beyond criticism.
not condoning suicide bombings etc in any way.

lets create another situation that is using different names and locations.
the mormons brass everyone off in the u.s. as they own all the businesses in utah so everyone turns against them. after the dust up is over it is decided that the mormons should have a homeland of their own, so they all rock up in lancashire taking over chorley and settling around the big white mormon cathedral there(yes thats what it is, a lot will have seen it from the motorway without realising what it is), they then start to drive the lancastrians out of the county (this does still include merseyside by the way), we can go back in and help to build up their businesses and improve their lives, but we can all live in camps around the outskirts of their borders without a pot to piss in between us.
would that be acceptable ?
would we be expected to just sit back and take it all from them ?
and more to the point,"does anyone think for a minute that we would just sit back and take it from them ? "
would the world expect us to not fight back ?
would the u.s. approve of us being treated like that ?

i just get the impression from various news channels that israel is more often than not the aggressor over there without anything being done, and these are usually pro-israeli channels i.e. american ones.

maybe i'm missing something which is why i ask for an explanation.

I remember reading a study a while back about a chap in Israel. George Tamarin, an Israeli psychologist, had over one thousand Israeli school children, 8-14 years old, read the Biblical story of Joshua's sack of Jericho. He then asked the question "Do you think Joshua and the Israelites acted rightly or not? They had three choices: A) they approved of Joshua actions; B) they partially approved; C) they disapproved. 66% approved and 26% disapproved. The remainder (8%) partially approved. He then slightly modified the story by replacing Joshua with "General Lee" and Israel with "a Chinese kingdom 3,000 years ago." This time he asked for the same responses from a control group of 168 different Israeli children. Now 75% disapproved and only 7% approved of "General Lee's" actions.

For those not familiar with the story, it was suggested by God that Joshua attack Jericho, and God would make the walls of the city fall (or some such), after with Joshua was to kill every living thing inside the city.

The thing that saddens me is how religion is used as justification for some truely horrendous deeds.

see what i'd done there bruce, and i'm not a qualified psychologist, i would be livin' in a bigger house if i was.
* quickly heads to e-bay to purchase a doctorate from the university of life

i do still need israel explaining though.

 

[SuitsBlue]

I remember reading a study a while back about a chap in Israel. George Tamarin, an Israeli psychologist, had over one thousand Israeli school children, 8-14 years old, read the Biblical story of Joshua's sack of Jericho. He then asked the question "Do you think Joshua and the Israelites acted rightly or not? They had three choices: A) they approved of Joshua actions; B) they partially approved; C) they disapproved. 66% approved and 26% disapproved. The remainder (8%) partially approved. He then slightly modified the story by replacing Joshua with "General Lee" and Israel with "a Chinese kingdom 3,000 years ago." This time he asked for the same responses from a control group of 168 different Israeli children. Now 75% disapproved and only 7% approved of "General Lee's" actions.

For those not familiar with the story, it was suggested by God that Joshua attack Jericho, and God would make the walls of the city fall (or some such), after with Joshua was to kill every living thing inside the city.

The thing that saddens me is how religion is used as justification for some truely horrendous deeds.

*how individuals twist religion for their own purposes, political, financial, or plain psychotic.

why werent numbers one to ten the following?

thou shalt not worship any other gods before me
thou shalt not take the lords name in vain
thou shalt remember the sabbath and keep it holy
thou shalt honour thy father and mother
thou shalt not murder
thou shalt not commit adultery
thou shalt not steal
thou shalt not bear false witness
thou shalt not covet thy neighbours possessions
thou shalt not thy neighbours wife

its exodus, its old school, it doesn't remain in phase with current society, but without it how would society and certain laws have become established?

there are some sick bastards that are part of the church that go around molesting small boys, and some equally sick bastards that go around covering those crimes up and not stopping any further attacks from occurring.

religion isn't perfect, what is? the human beings that practice and believe in it are certainly not perfect, perhaps that is why it was established in the first place. not always as noble as 'humility' but to strive is to accept ones failings and attempt to lead a better life.

 

[Gazdalf]

*how individuals twist religion for their own purposes, political, financial, or plain psychotic.

why werent numbers one to ten the following?

thou shalt not worship any other gods before me
thou shalt not take the lords name in vain
thou shalt remember the sabbath and keep it holy
thou shalt honour thy father and mother
thou shalt not murder
thou shalt not commit adultery
thou shalt not steal
thou shalt not bear false witness
thou shalt not covet thy neighbours possessions
thou shalt not thy neighbours wife

its exodus, its old school, it doesn't remain in phase with current society, but without it how would society and certain laws have become established?

there are some sick bastards that are part of the church that go around molesting small boys, and some equally sick bastards that go around covering those crimes up and not stopping any further attacks from occurring.

religion isn't perfect, what is? the human beings that practice and believe in it are certainly not perfect, perhaps that is why it was established in the first place. not always as noble as 'humility' but to strive is to accept ones failings and attempt to lead a better life.

Jack Daniels "Silver select", hand written Vat number and Bottle number on the neck.No after taste. Now that is as close as perfect gets.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

With you all the way if you change it from Chritianity to 'Christians' (or so called Christians). People often say religion is to blame for the majority of the worlds atrocities, but I disagree. People with a political/economic agenda are responsible for the atrocities. they use religion to whip people into a frenzy of hatred, to control them and to generally justify anything they do and villify what the other side do. It's not just Christians either.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Isn't the Old Testament a generally ghastly book though? It seems to recommend murder and rape for all sorts of so called 'sins'. In some parts of the world it's still a hanging offence to be an atheist.

It seems that the more moderate christians pick and choose which bits of the bible to believe, or alternatively suggest they are merely allegories not to be taken literally. You can quite picture extremist Muslims or Christians advocating the genocide told about in Joshua and as it's in the Bible as 'gods will' are they to blame or is religion to blame?

Likewise many televangalists in America advocate all sorts of things towards homosexuals. Once again such actions are supported by the Bible so who is really to blame for it? So called ethnic cleansing has been ripe throughout the 20th century but when the 10 commandments clearly state that you shall have no god but me is it surprising that so many atrosoties are conducted in the name of religion?

Likewise with the fuss made over the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed. I'm sure many people regarded the response to these drawings as overly zealous, yet again there it is at #7 "You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name."

 

[SuitsBlue]

i dont know the intricacies or the different (pardon the following) flavours of the muslim religion. so i cant comment.

im sure the old testament is rather horrific, but thats not to let off the new testament and its many varying hypocrises.

to be fair, the standard of education and understanding has risen such that the manner in which religions/teachings/laws were written way back when can be dissected and misconstrued now in a much easier fashion - but lets acknowledge that although organised religion has its many flaws and is stained in the blood of its massacred victims it is ALSO responsible for a great many positives. Im not suggesting they balance each other out, and so everything is ok and we can all wear hats and hold hands, but religion and society have evolved together and have been for thousands of years mutually dependent. (i think i got that last part right, im getting ready to go to REM so my mind is considering a few things at the moment).

 

[Blue Ray]

I thought only royalty and politicians went to church these days to ask forgiveness for everyone they've ripped off that week. Well I've never seen a hearse with a luggage rack so they can forget taking anything with them.

 

[toffeestillidie]

First of all, in discussing this i think we should be careful. There are some christians on this site, and i can understand how they would be offended at us having a go at their religion, factual or not. If suitsblue got a stern talking-to for his comments that some viewed as wrong, I think its only fair that we watch what we say, and make sure we don't take shots direct or unfair shots at the religion itself.

i think i come from an interesting perspective in terms of why the world needs religion. I'm personally agnostic, but my family is Hindu and i was raised as a hindu, before deciding around age 12 that it wasn't what i believed. I've seen when my grandfather struggled with his health though, that my dad needed to turn to religion for comfort. Honestly, i'm not sure if people are ready to accept the harsh realities of a world without a higher power, one where after you die its lights out, and when bad people do bad things, tough [Poor language removed] cos they'll never ever be given retribution. In fact, i'm not even sure i am, which is why in that respect i need religion, i need other people to believe just so i'll have that nagging "maybe i'm wrong" sentiment in the back of my head, the one that keeps me an agnostic instead of being full-on atheist. if noone else believed in religion, i wouldn't have the hope, however trifling, that maybe they actually do have it all figured out.

in response to suits's post about the 10 commandments, if religion weren't there, we would have found some other bollocks way to instill those values on people. The plain fact of the 10 commandments is that they're things that are good for society, obviously at some point someone figured out that things worked out better if people didn't kill eachother or lie to eachother or bang their neighbor's bird. I think in the absence of religion, people still would have seen all the problems and made laws accordingly, to enforce these same principles.

The 10 commandments could also be justified through reciprocal moral obligations, that is the idea that if a given action was performed against oneself they would not like it, thus it'd be wrong for them to perform that same action themselves, if the code of rules is supposed to apply to everyone equally. This basically boils down to the golden rule, but it could have been the method through which the 10 commandments were created in the absence of created.

Of course, the method through which the commandments are enforced is fear, and nothing seems to whip people into shape as well as the threat of eternal damnation. still though, i believe that these things can be taught to people, simply through explaining to them certain things to do are wrong, and you shouldn't do them simply because they're bad for other people. I think that when the first rules imposed on people are done through the fear of punishment, it teaches people to think that way for all things, and their motivation becomes to avoid punishment, rather than to avoid harming others.

my biggest issue with organized religion, is people's reliance on the word of god. there have been tons of serial killers throughout history, that have justified their actions through messages from god, the first that I know of is of course Joshua. How do we draw the line between divine inspiration and schizophrenic voices in your head? I don't understand how, if god justifies different things to different people, how people can pick and choose what they want to follow, and still act like they're following the word of god and not their own choice.