I guess it depends on whether war was the only option. Considering the horrific death toll you'd like to think more efforts would have been made to avert it all in the first place.
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Conscientious objectors
- Thread starter Bruce Wayne
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Whitebootman
Player Valuation: £35m
I have to agree with you there.
At the Service of Remembrance last Sunday the politicians, diplomats etc stood outside for the 20 minute service, then all moved indoors for tea and cakes before the veterans started their march past.
It always strikes me that the politicians, diplomats etc should remain outside until the very last veteran has marched by, and look each one in the eye. They should stand and reflect that in most cases War is the result of a failure of politics and diplomacy.
The veterans, their comrads who did not return, and their families who have also suffered so much along with those who currently serve deserve no less from those who would send them in harms way.
Robert Jarvis
Player Valuation: £35m
Bruce go back to your history, in both the WWs, Germany started them. AS for WW2 Chamberlain did all he could to avert war but was crapped on by Hitler.
You are also forgetting the supposedly secret support that Germany gave to Franco.
As they say it takes two to tango.
You are also forgetting the supposedly secret support that Germany gave to Franco.
As they say it takes two to tango.
Jamo Martinez
Player Valuation: £70m
Yeah, but if objection had been more common in the first half of the 20th century, there might have been enoughconscientious objectors in Germany to throw a spanner in the war works
Slight_Return
Player Valuation: £6m
might have something to do with the ever expanding world population though? maybe?
as for war and politics...
"war is a continuation of politics by other means"
neonleon
Player Valuation: £35m
wrong.
If everyone had been a conscientious objector there wouldn't have been a war.
Slight_Return
Player Valuation: £6m
because everyone on this forum wants to move to kirkby, and sign manny fernandes.
please think before making such outlandish statements as that. you have no idea how many people marched off to their deaths with nothing but their families safety in their minds - regardless of objection. show a bit of respect.
neonleon
Player Valuation: £35m
sorry its just pure logic. If everyone involved in WW2 had refused to take up arms, then it is not possible that a war could have happened.
at best a heated argument would have occurred.
therefore the statement is not outlandish.
show a bit of respect?
not everyone takes orders like a [Poor language removed] automaton you know.
Deary me.
You do know the instigators to WWII?
WWII was inevitable.
It wasn't a case of refusal to take up arms.
Slight_Return
Player Valuation: £6m
Is it only me that see's the emboldened coloured bit above and is drowned in irony?
neonleon
Player Valuation: £35m
yes I know. My point is that if all the germans, all the japanese all the russians, all the yanks, all the english, and everyone else - if all, I repeat ALL of those people had been conscientious objectors, then ipso facto - no war.
this wasn't of course the case - but if someone says - if everyone had been a conscientious objector we'd all be speaking german, then they'd be wrong unless the definition of the word "everyone" has changed.
No war is inevitable without the collusion of at least one group of people.
When we strive to think for ourselves, to educate ourselves, to not believe everything we read, to live our lives as individuals and not let ourselves be coerced into dogmas that lead to antagonism and aggression - then we are doing our bit to prevent an environment conducive to war.
there were many germans that did not want to fight, same as there were many english. One of the many tragedies of war is that mob insanity and sleep of reason, that prevents pacifism from doing much good.
Come of it leon. I would expect a 5 child to say something like "Well, why did they just not fight"
You make it out as if the lads could have just thought "ah [Poor language removed] it, cant be arsed going on that boat and landing on that beach to be shot at to [Poor language removed], i'll go home and have a pint"
If your going to say anything so idealised, how about "If Hitler hadn't been born...' or perhaps something more realistic as in 'If England/France had the bottle to declare war on Germany much earlier' - you know, as soon as Germany invaded Rhineland;
Robert Jarvis
Player Valuation: £35m
Leon you miss a point here. Largely speaking the democratic cultures are of such a tolerant nature that there objectors who stood up and were counted. The other societies you mention Germany, Japan and Russia were ruled by dictators or a military class in which there was absolutley no way of raising an objection. As for example in current times North Korea. Remeber also that Square in Beijing?
So really I would say stop trying to be clever and face the facts of history.
By the way how do you know there were objectors in Germany, Japan and Russia?
So really I would say stop trying to be clever and face the facts of history.
By the way how do you know there were objectors in Germany, Japan and Russia?
Later on in the war, conscientious objectors in the UK were given death penalties - anyone know if any were carried out? I am sure plenty were in the likes of Germany/Russia etc
neonleon
Player Valuation: £35m
I know its a somewhat idealised point to make, but its still a relevant one - and I was discussing a hypothetical point, not one based on the reality of that situation.
but yes I frequently think like a five uyear old.
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