Everton v Crystal Palace. 21st Sep at 16.00.

Result?

  • Everton

    Votes: 286 83.9%
  • Palace

    Votes: 32 9.4%
  • Draw

    Votes: 23 6.7%

  • Total voters
    341
  • Poll closed .
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Not open for further replies.
It's not the first time this season he's wasted subs. So many different formations during this game it was hard to keep up.

That passing game bored the [Poor language removed] out of me. A fella by me in the Top Balc fell asleep during that time, no joke.
why do players move into space to receive the ball, no one in 5 yards of them and they hit the ball straight back to where it came from, our pass complete ratio must be very high, only problem is it goes no where and we end up eventualy giving the ball away
 
  • You get what I mean though

    Take the RS last night, They were pulled apart by an average West Ham side, If that was the type of performance we were seeing I would be very worried

    We are still playing good football we just need to get our defence in order and stop making daft mistakes

    I do I just wish we weren't saying te same thing pretty much every week.

    And the longer it goes on and it has been since pre-season there's something which makes me think its not just individual mistakes.
 
Martinez needs to shoulder some heavy criticism right now. It's only fair to hail him as a revolutionary successor to Moyes. I expected better from Martinez, more bravery in his selections. Instead he handed the keys to the kingdom back to the old guard; understandable if not preferrable to transition subtlely in the first season. Lose the seniormost players, risk losing the dressing room. But this season the only names on the teamsheet should be through merit, not seniority or status. His rehabilitation of Naismith gave me hope he was brave in this regard, but disssapointingly he has turned out not to be.

They shiouldn't have survived the Arsernal game, certainly not the Chelsea one, but to move Stones to rightback to accomodate Sylvain Maldini Distin was shocking. Here is John Stones the ultimate in assured footballing talent from the back being shifted aside so that Jags and Distin could play hot potato with the ball. It was a chore just to get them to cease the unnecessary clearances - you always got the feeling Jags loved nothing more than a smashed clearance into the Top Balcony. I remember him doing them under no pressure whatsoever and seemingly pleased with what he'd done. Having grudgingly accepted the demands that he play out from the back, it's as if he's rebelling by putting the minimum amount of effort in, still clearly of the mould that defenders are there to defend and he shouldn't be expected to do much else. He lumbers out of defence then plays a shoddy, slow, backwards-moving trickler to Distin. If he should heaven forbid be unfortunate enough to receive it back, his favourite ball is back to Howard. Who promply boots it up and away and we lose the ball anyway. So many times there is no need to go back to Howard, it's not a dangerous situation, if anything we don't gain, we lose from it because Howard's kicking, even by goalkeeping standards, is abject. Again, job done for Phil. He's done his bit, he even passsed it as askled, what more can you ask?

Compare that to John Stones who only considers his job done when we've got possession back: and you can see why he's so admired. Right in front of me near the Gwladys Street end of Main Stand he slid in but contorted himself at this arcing angle so that he not only won the ball but scooped it round and instead of it going out for a throw, he stood up and we were on the counter. There was one time Bolasie beat him but then a) he's not a fullback and b) this is the player who last year made Coleman look ordinary. Obviously loves Goodison. But other than that he was the most solid of the defence. Which made the decision to withdraw him and move McCarthy to rightback an almost indefensible deference to the status quo. And, though yes Osman was caught in possession on the edge of our box, when it finally came in it was through a gaping hold at rightback. Both he and Distin are desperately reliant on the shield in front of them, especially Barry. Today not even he could help, and I felt sorry for Barry as he was outstanding.

But their reliance on others to do their jobs for them is nothing compared to Howard, whose abysmal ability to command his area and marshall the back four is right down there with the worst of them. The three of them have never seemed clear on who deals with what. How many times did bouncing balls, half-clearances or low balls into the six yard box result in goals over the last few years? Howard, really, should know better than to rush out when it was 50/50 as to whether it was even necessary, never mind would he get there. And the second goal was simply pathetic. Far blow the required standard

But the biggest issue of all is Lukaku. The pricetag looms large like the inevitable albatross around the neck that it is. I never would have gone over £18m and as soon as discussions hit that figure, I would walk away. He never sufficiently impressed last season. For long periods he was anonymous or lumbering in the touch and movement. £28m is a farcical amount, whichever way you look at it. To a club of our financial limitations, I can only ask - what the hell was Martinez thinking? He has saddled the club with an unprecedented investment on the playing field, like nothing before, surely on the promise - his seemingly genuine belief - that Lukaku will be one of the best in Europe. But to me, especially given the evidence, that looks like fantastical conjecture on his part, the kind of gamble we are in no position to take. I texted my mate on the way home from Wolfsburg - 'What I wouldn't give to have spent that money on a top class goalkeeper and a top class centre half to pair Stones'. And really, it seems like that should've been the way forward. We look more than capable of scoring goals, play with a verve and intelligence that makes it easy to avoid rigid systems. We never needed to be tied down to a traditional #9, especially when his contributions have been minimal.

Can't think of any individual examples, aside from pipe dream of Petr Cech, but it surely couldn't be too hard to find brilliance in both positions for £28m
tl;dr you basicaly wanted us to sign a goalkeeper and central defender and play without a striker. Sounds good.
 
If we hadn't given away the penalty we would have been fine with the the team Martinez put out but once we were put under pressure the likes of Atsu and Osman started to buckle.

It was a gamble that didn't pay off due to individual errors and a lack of resilience with Naismith and Miralles being benched (the two lids who have been lifting and driving the side forward when we've needed it this season).

I'm frustrated but we could just as easily have seen this game out with minimal fuss if things had gone our way - it's fine margins and that's how Martinez rolls so expect more of the same but also some boss highs as well.

For tonight though - koff Everton.
 
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Wasn't Eto'o meant to be one of the best forwards in the world? could he not be the forward perhaps? Lukaku has the control and touch of an angry rapist
 

Martinez needs to shoulder some heavy criticism right now. It's only fair to hail him as a revolutionary successor to Moyes. I expected better from Martinez, more bravery in his selections. Instead he handed the keys to the kingdom back to the old guard; understandable if not preferrable to transition subtlely in the first season. Lose the seniormost players, risk losing the dressing room. But this season the only names on the teamsheet should be through merit, not seniority or status. His rehabilitation of Naismith gave me hope he was brave in this regard, but disssapointingly he has turned out not to be.

They shiouldn't have survived the Arsernal game, certainly not the Chelsea one, but to move Stones to rightback to accomodate Sylvain Maldini Distin was shocking. Here is John Stones the ultimate in assured footballing talent from the back being shifted aside so that Jags and Distin could play hot potato with the ball. It was a chore just to get them to cease the unnecessary clearances - you always got the feeling Jags loved nothing more than a smashed clearance into the Top Balcony. I remember him doing them under no pressure whatsoever and seemingly pleased with what he'd done. Having grudgingly accepted the demands that he play out from the back, it's as if he's rebelling by putting the minimum amount of effort in, still clearly of the mould that defenders are there to defend and he shouldn't be expected to do much else. He lumbers out of defence then plays a shoddy, slow, backwards-moving trickler to Distin. If he should heaven forbid be unfortunate enough to receive it back, his favourite ball is back to Howard. Who promply boots it up and away and we lose the ball anyway. So many times there is no need to go back to Howard, it's not a dangerous situation, if anything we don't gain, we lose from it because Howard's kicking, even by goalkeeping standards, is abject. Again, job done for Phil. He's done his bit, he even passsed it as askled, what more can you ask?

Compare that to John Stones who only considers his job done when we've got possession back: and you can see why he's so admired. Right in front of me near the Gwladys Street end of Main Stand he slid in but contorted himself at this arcing angle so that he not only won the ball but scooped it round and instead of it going out for a throw, he stood up and we were on the counter. There was one time Bolasie beat him but then a) he's not a fullback and b) this is the player who last year made Coleman look ordinary. Obviously loves Goodison. But other than that he was the most solid of the defence. Which made the decision to withdraw him and move McCarthy to rightback an almost indefensible deference to the status quo. And, though yes Osman was caught in possession on the edge of our box, when it finally came in it was through a gaping hold at rightback. Both he and Distin are desperately reliant on the shield in front of them, especially Barry. Today not even he could help, and I felt sorry for Barry as he was outstanding.

But their reliance on others to do their jobs for them is nothing compared to Howard, whose abysmal ability to command his area and marshall the back four is right down there with the worst of them. The three of them have never seemed clear on who deals with what. How many times did bouncing balls, half-clearances or low balls into the six yard box result in goals over the last few years? Howard, really, should know better than to rush out when it was 50/50 as to whether it was even necessary, never mind would he get there. And the second goal was simply pathetic. Far blow the required standard

But the biggest issue of all is Lukaku. The pricetag looms large like the inevitable albatross around the neck that it is. I never would have gone over £18m and as soon as discussions hit that figure, I would walk away. He never sufficiently impressed last season. For long periods he was anonymous or lumbering in the touch and movement. £28m is a farcical amount, whichever way you look at it. To a club of our financial limitations, I can only ask - what the hell was Martinez thinking? He has saddled the club with an unprecedented investment on the playing field, like nothing before, surely on the promise - his seemingly genuine belief - that Lukaku will be one of the best in Europe. But to me, especially given the evidence, that looks like fantastical conjecture on his part, the kind of gamble we are in no position to take. I texted my mate on the way home from Wolfsburg - 'What I wouldn't give to have spent that money on a top class goalkeeper and a top class centre half to pair Stones'. And really, it seems like that should've been the way forward. We look more than capable of scoring goals, play with a verve and intelligence that makes it easy to avoid rigid systems. We never needed to be tied down to a traditional #9, especially when his contributions have been minimal.

Can't think of any individual examples, aside from pipe dream of Petr Cech, but it surely couldn't be too hard to find brilliance in both positions for £28m
This is the biggest load of baloney I have read in a very, very long time.

I don't even know where to begin with my disagreement. It's just knee jerking to the highest degree.
 
Maybe he has a bit of a blind spot for McCarthy. Lad is badly out of form and needs a rest.
Yea I think that's probably a lot to do with it.

Same with Distin and Jags and Stones is still learning and physically too thin.

Is Barry also able to cover the ground like he used to - the stuff we don't see?

It all adds up to a weak centre and I don't know if its one of those things or a little bit of all of them.
 
I have said this before getting rid of Shane and pumping up stones was a huge mistake. Not good enough Martinez and shane had a clash it happens but big mistake. Only my thoughts

But I don't see how you can say that? At best Duffy is unproven, at worst he hasn't cut the mustard in training or in any of his loan spells.

And before someone mentions Yeovil, it's Yeovil.
 
I am not talking about the last 4 games though, Just this one

Errors have cost us today, How you can't just admit that is baffling, 3 shots on goal all game and they have three goals to show for it, Hardly a frigging master class in tactics

Absolutely. It's also worth noting that in a way we've been slightly unlucky. Obviously, like they say, you make your own luck, and we've failed at that by making many mistakes this season, but I'll tell you what, we haven't got away with many mistakes, we just seem to have been punished for every error.
 

I have said this before getting rid of Shane and pumping up stones was a huge mistake. Not good enough Martinez and shane had a clash it happens but big mistake. Only my thoughts

I suppose from Martinez point of view though Brian Shane would have been behind Jags and Distin and Alcaraz and I don't think anyone has bigged up Stones too much, the lads class and is a future England centre back for years to come.
 
Don't know where to start after that performance. Had a bad feeling when I saw the team. As has been alluded to stones should stay at cb. Rotate jags or distin but never play the lad at fullback as he is wasted there.
The lack of movement by eto'o and lukaku was shocking. Barry (who I thought was our best player) looked up time and again in the first half to play into them, but they were so static with their movement it gave him no options. Eto'o who started on the left and finished on the right, should have been played centrally and lukaku out wide to run the channels. Atsu to be fair did try and make those runs, but apart from one mazy run in each half struggled to adapt.
I was so annoyed to see osman picked over Gibson. The lad has been a good servant to the club, but shouldn't be anything more then a last resort in central midfield with the competition we had in that area.
But the most worrying thing of all was the lack of communication throughout the side. I sat and watched the team after we had weakly surrounded that shocking 3rd goal, and there wasn't even a word said. There are no leaders in that team (can you imagine conceding a goal like that with Reid, ratcliffe or big dunc in the side) but it worries me in big games, when you need strong personalities as well as good players, we go into our shadow. Pleasing to score at least 2 goals in every game, but unless we sort out our defensive shortcomings, we have zero chance of making the top 4.
 

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