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I read over this with Ghost just now and whilst I won't give my views just yet to give others a chance to state their piece I will say that it's a reasonably well researched piece so will give him his dues for that.
Rob
Player Valuation: £20m
and yet everything can be made to look good on paper, wyness and tesco can make it look good and others can make it look bad.
The big problem with this article is the sheer amount of guess work, credit to him for the effort but one mistaken guess and all his figures get way off track, does he really know the ins and outs of the finances at Everton?
Future revenues won't be enough from the kirkby site, well they will be even worse staying at Goodison and arguing with LCC for another couple of years I Imagine.
The big problem with this article is the sheer amount of guess work, credit to him for the effort but one mistaken guess and all his figures get way off track, does he really know the ins and outs of the finances at Everton?
Future revenues won't be enough from the kirkby site, well they will be even worse staying at Goodison and arguing with LCC for another couple of years I Imagine.
loosecranks
Player Valuation: £950k
"Football is a business, in business you make logical decisions based on the information presented to you. Let the heart rule the head at your peril; important decisions require the collection of commercial and technical data and the vision or entrepreneurial talent to bring the chosen decision to fruition."
“Come to the Merseyside derby, we’re right next to Tesco so you can do you shopping, it’s cheaper than Asda.”
A footballing [sorry, shopping] dichotomy, if ever I saw one.
“Come to the Merseyside derby, we’re right next to Tesco so you can do you shopping, it’s cheaper than Asda.”
A footballing [sorry, shopping] dichotomy, if ever I saw one.
Last edited:
The reply I posted in the comments section of the article:
FCConnecticut
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Here is another interesting look at the clubs financial situation.
Bruce is ace.
I dont even need to read his posts to agree with them.
He just loves money.
I dont even need to read his posts to agree with them.
He just loves money.
Rob
Player Valuation: £20m
Interesting read. David Conn has written a few books on football finance and is probably second only to Mihir Bose in his reporting of them.
Bruce you can have my bank account details, youre that good.
Having read over the Conn piece in more detail it doesn't reveal a great deal, although that's not surprising in a national daily. What it does say however is that we're not in great shape financially and with the money required to keep pace going up we're struggling at the moment.
One thing that was interesting in the original article was the difference in commercial income between ourselves and the likes of Liverpool. Things like prize money and tv income are expected because they are slightly more successful but I don't know that the difference in commercial income can be attributed to that same difference. Some maybe, but not all.
The original piece seemed to think that much of this could be made up through hotels, casinos etc. on the stadia site. The idea seems to be that we build our own Chelsea Village, brainchild incidently of Ken Bates, who's financial acument doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny. The argument doesn't hold much water with me either. The new Arsenal stadium comes complete with many facilities within the stadium itself but little around the perimeter.
To get a better idea I thought I'd look into the figures for Man Utd. The last annual report I have is for the 2003 season so is slightly out of date due to their latest ground expansion. Nevertheless it should provide a decent breakdown of their commercial income.
Executive Boxes sell at a higher premium than regular tickets and generate an estimated £12.5 million of revenue for the club. These tickets are good for all home league matches to be viewed.
Furthermore, Manchester United games held at Old Trafford sell very early, and about 50% of all tickets are executive boxes or season ticket holders. This means around half of the money for home games comes in before the season even starts. This creates a cash reservoir that Manchester United can use in order to manage the financial situation much more at ease.
In addition, Manchester United has excellent conditions for its fans and fantastic catering facilities. The club prepares about 100,000 meals per match day, which generates close to £4 million in revenue, not to mention on non-match days where the catering facilities are available that generate another £3 million in revenue per year.
In addition to that they get the following commercial revenue (also not related to any ancillary facilities).
Shirt sponsorship £56m over 4 years
Merchandising deal with Nike £303m over 13 years
Platinum Sponsors at £1m a year each (Platinum sponsors including PepsiCo and Anheuser-Busch pay the club up to £1 million per year for four years. United has also worked with PepsiCo on joint promotions in Southeast Asia, and with Anheuser-Busch, whose Budweiser has replaced Carling as the club's official beer. These key sponsors not only get to be exclusive providers to Manchester United within its stadium, but hope to leverage the value of the Manchester United brand with its fan base. The current platinum sponsors are: Vodafone, Nike, Centaury Radio (a Manchester radio station), Budweiser, Ladbrooks (a British betting company), Fuji Film (a imaging company), Pepsi, Schick (a male grooming company), Audi and Air Asia.)
125,000 credit card users
200,000 museum visits per year (₤9.50 adult, ₤6.50 discount, or ₤27 family ticket)
In addition, Manchester United operates its ManUnited Soccer Schools in the United Kingdom and worldwide. It plans to run 39 2-day camps in various locations across UK. The club charges ₤29 or ₤49 for a 1 or 2 days, respectively. ManUnited will hold four team, two goalkeepers, and one girls-only residential camp in 2006. The cost of these training camps ranges between ₤399 and ₤495 per player3. Also, ManUnited Soccer Schools conducted its first camp tour of the United States in 2004. It attracted over 600 youngsters to attend its training camps. The soccer schools may not only help in popularizing ManUnited worldwide, but also generate an additional source of revenue for the club.
Then we have income from overseas, which I suspect is where we can really improve. Manchester United realizes more revenue from fans in Asia (£16.6) than in the United Kingdom and Ireland (£11.1). Approximately 90% of the merchandising business comes out of the United Kingdom. This just shows that there is a lot of room for branding elsewhere other than the United Kingdom.
In 2004/05, revenue from international tours and friendly matches totaled €22.9m (£15.5m), driven mainly by a pre-season tour to China, Japan and Thailand.
The One United scheme aims to tap into the some 40 million fans the club is said to have worldwide. To become a member, an adult person has to pay ₤26
while a youth membership costs ₤16 per season. Six months after its opening, “One United” already had around 125,000 members injecting money into Manchester United.
So you can see that there is a whole lot we can do as a club that has far more potential than some crappy three star hotel.
One thing that was interesting in the original article was the difference in commercial income between ourselves and the likes of Liverpool. Things like prize money and tv income are expected because they are slightly more successful but I don't know that the difference in commercial income can be attributed to that same difference. Some maybe, but not all.
The original piece seemed to think that much of this could be made up through hotels, casinos etc. on the stadia site. The idea seems to be that we build our own Chelsea Village, brainchild incidently of Ken Bates, who's financial acument doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny. The argument doesn't hold much water with me either. The new Arsenal stadium comes complete with many facilities within the stadium itself but little around the perimeter.
To get a better idea I thought I'd look into the figures for Man Utd. The last annual report I have is for the 2003 season so is slightly out of date due to their latest ground expansion. Nevertheless it should provide a decent breakdown of their commercial income.
Executive Boxes sell at a higher premium than regular tickets and generate an estimated £12.5 million of revenue for the club. These tickets are good for all home league matches to be viewed.
Furthermore, Manchester United games held at Old Trafford sell very early, and about 50% of all tickets are executive boxes or season ticket holders. This means around half of the money for home games comes in before the season even starts. This creates a cash reservoir that Manchester United can use in order to manage the financial situation much more at ease.
In addition, Manchester United has excellent conditions for its fans and fantastic catering facilities. The club prepares about 100,000 meals per match day, which generates close to £4 million in revenue, not to mention on non-match days where the catering facilities are available that generate another £3 million in revenue per year.
In addition to that they get the following commercial revenue (also not related to any ancillary facilities).
Shirt sponsorship £56m over 4 years
Merchandising deal with Nike £303m over 13 years
Platinum Sponsors at £1m a year each (Platinum sponsors including PepsiCo and Anheuser-Busch pay the club up to £1 million per year for four years. United has also worked with PepsiCo on joint promotions in Southeast Asia, and with Anheuser-Busch, whose Budweiser has replaced Carling as the club's official beer. These key sponsors not only get to be exclusive providers to Manchester United within its stadium, but hope to leverage the value of the Manchester United brand with its fan base. The current platinum sponsors are: Vodafone, Nike, Centaury Radio (a Manchester radio station), Budweiser, Ladbrooks (a British betting company), Fuji Film (a imaging company), Pepsi, Schick (a male grooming company), Audi and Air Asia.)
125,000 credit card users
200,000 museum visits per year (₤9.50 adult, ₤6.50 discount, or ₤27 family ticket)
In addition, Manchester United operates its ManUnited Soccer Schools in the United Kingdom and worldwide. It plans to run 39 2-day camps in various locations across UK. The club charges ₤29 or ₤49 for a 1 or 2 days, respectively. ManUnited will hold four team, two goalkeepers, and one girls-only residential camp in 2006. The cost of these training camps ranges between ₤399 and ₤495 per player3. Also, ManUnited Soccer Schools conducted its first camp tour of the United States in 2004. It attracted over 600 youngsters to attend its training camps. The soccer schools may not only help in popularizing ManUnited worldwide, but also generate an additional source of revenue for the club.
Then we have income from overseas, which I suspect is where we can really improve. Manchester United realizes more revenue from fans in Asia (£16.6) than in the United Kingdom and Ireland (£11.1). Approximately 90% of the merchandising business comes out of the United Kingdom. This just shows that there is a lot of room for branding elsewhere other than the United Kingdom.
In 2004/05, revenue from international tours and friendly matches totaled €22.9m (£15.5m), driven mainly by a pre-season tour to China, Japan and Thailand.
The One United scheme aims to tap into the some 40 million fans the club is said to have worldwide. To become a member, an adult person has to pay ₤26
while a youth membership costs ₤16 per season. Six months after its opening, “One United” already had around 125,000 members injecting money into Manchester United.
So you can see that there is a whole lot we can do as a club that has far more potential than some crappy three star hotel.
On a slightly unrelated note it's interesting to read in the Guardian article that the Robert Earle input has been more to do with securing finance from the banks than anything else, so it would seem that any spending spree for Manny and Yak will be done on our flexible friend.
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