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Guantanamo Bay

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Cal

Player Valuation: £40m
Guantanamo detainee Binyam Mohamed returns to make torture claims - Telegraph

How has the lid been released?

He re-surfaced at the US detention facility in Bagram, Afghanistan in May 2004 and was then transferred to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, where he confessed to attending lectures by Osama bin Laden and being sent to the US to carry out a "dirty bomb" attack on high rise apartment buildings.

So because of some claims of torture, he is being released even though he confessed to the above quote?
 

We dont know what methods they use there to get information from people. From the stories i have heard and read, you would confess to anything they wanted to stop the torture.
 
We dont know what methods they use there to get information from people. From the stories i have heard and read, you would confess to anything they wanted to stop the torture.

right thats the main reason the US strongly opposes torture for interrogation (as i understand it, the UK doesn't), people supposedly will confess to anything to get out of torture, its one of the few things both obama and mccain agreed on, though obviously mccain is the more reputable authority on the subject
 
Thing is, there's been no 'dirty bomb' attacks on any apartment blocks anywhere - or any use of any form of radioactive explosives anywhere.

Not to say it's not possible, but I doubt if Bin Laden had planned to introduce this new M.O., there'd be more than one guy sent to carry out the job and we would've seen someone manage to follow through with it, whether in the U.S., U.K., Spain or wherever else.

It all sounds a bit too '24' meets James Bond, with a dash of Mission Impossible thrown in for good measure.

Reckon it's more than likely that the guy's done nothing more than be in the wrong place, at the wrong time - albeit with the wrong passport... Highly doubt Scotland Yard or MI5 would be letting him loose if they weren't completely sure.
 
i'll preface this by saying that i'm absolutely against state-sanctioned torture techniques, be they for interrogation or punishment, but i thought i should add this just to better facilitate discourse on the forum:

i had eaten dinner with a friend of mine and his mother who works for the department of defense some time back, and i had mentioned how i thought gitmo should be closed, though my reason was moreso for the lack of trials and due process, but i also mentioned torture.

on the subject of torture, she explained that part of what terrorist cells teach is for the captured to make claims of torture so as to demonize the enemy while drawing more followers to the cause. she said that a lot of the claims of torture were later proven false, and were most likely fabricated.

after seeing the pictures of abu gharib, i'm more inclined to believe that torture probably took place at guantanamo bay as well. even if cases are exaggerated, the fact that the prison is providing terrorists with fodder to paint the US as ruthless is another major reason to close it down, and bring transparency into the system so that we'll be more accepted by the international community. the war on terror is as much an ideological clash as it is anything, and i would hate for the US to stoop to their level.

the handling of former guantanamo bay inmates will be an absolute mess, there is no doubt about that. at the same time, this was a mess we brought on ourselves, the system of holding people indefinetely without trials was bound to come to an end at some point (i'm sure our founding fathers were turning in their graves to learn it happened at all), and systemic obstacles are no reason to stop progress, better we transcend them and do our best to put the past behind us now rather than later.
 

right thats the main reason the US strongly opposes torture for interrogation (as i understand it, the UK doesn't), people supposedly will confess to anything to get out of torture, its one of the few things both obama and mccain agreed on, though obviously mccain is the more reputable authority on the subject


Actually, your guys were far more in favour of it than ours and far more recently. The one thing that 'alternative techniques for intelligence' (I love that phrase) will always get you is a raft of false positives. People will tell you whatever they think you want to hear after a while.

The thing with modern day 'torture' is that it is not really any more scientific than torture in the olden days. Sure, it leaves less marks and relies far more on inducing psycholgical trauma over physical trauma, but it's not the type of thing you can do clinical trials on - not many volunteers would come forward, and many agencies are understandably none too keen to keep detailed records of exactly what they've done, to whom, how much, and for how long.

As a means for Intelligence gathering Gitmo, and places like it, cost far more than they were worth. The propaganda value for those seeking to radicalise the Muslim youth was immense while the quality of Intelligence was questionable.

Gitmo's greatest contribution to the US was as a plot tool for the scriptwriters on NCIS, cracked a case but can't get a confession? Threaten the perp with a one way trip to Gitmo, Gibbs... cue closing credits.

Am not sure how the scriptwriters will get over its passing, but it's time that the Intelligence services on both sides of the pond sharpened their pencils, stopped sticking them under people's fingernails, and started gathering Intelligence properly.

If he does nothing else in his tenure, Obama's swift decision to close Gitmo, will be a valuable legacy, as long as it isn't stuffed up by the processing of former inmates on closure. An open, international court would be the most appropriate route to take, but it is also the most unlikely; "national security" being a nice big carpet to sweep all uncomfortable issues under.

As for the individual in question, the fact that he is free to pursue his legal claims speaks volumes for the weight being attached to his 'confession' and for the views of intelligence gathering organisations on both sides of the pond as to his guilt.

When it comes to assessing the impacts of torture and to whether an individual has been tortured (which is a highly emotive word, provoking all kinds of vivid images in ones imagination) it is important to remember that we're not talking about something akin to scenes from Hostel, it is the slow, systematic breakdown of an individual's psychological resistance through predominantly non-invasive techniques.

In answer to the original post- no, he wasn't released because of the torture claims (you'd be fitting a revolving door on remand centres on both sides of the pond if that was likely to work), he was released, and once he was safely home, he has made allegations which will need to be investigated.
 
Part of all terrorists training involves coping with torture, don't fool yourself that these are just young misguided fools full of idealism - they're highly trained killers.

This guy comes to England from Ethiopia claiming asylum as his life is in imminent danger and he will be killed if we 'Force' him to go back.

So, we grant asylum in the hope he will feel safe and become a useful member of our society. What does he do ...?

Get a job ? Go to college ? No, he decides to go off with his legit passport for a holiday in the most dangerous place on earth and home of the Al-Queda to 'see' what an islamic state is like - hasn't he heard of Saudi Arabia ?. He then dissappears leaving no record of his departure from there and turns up flying out of Pakistan with false papers, following a well trodden path used by known terrorists.

What should our security forces do ?

Take him into custody and offer him a cuppa and a smoke and ask ever so politely " Are you a terrorist, Sonny ?" To which he will reply "No" and so we treat him right and with a smile and a wink send him back to one of our major cities.

6 months later 33 men, women and children are massacred on a tube train and in the following months we see our old friend Mahmod entering this station sporting his new rucksack and untraceable mobile phone.

"The security forces had him in custody, they can't do their job right, they're to blame " We'll cry as the funerals take place.

Well in my opinion this isn't good enough and if our security forces want to 'Riverdance' on this guys testicles each morning, in order to to prevent sickening atrocities, that's fine by me.
 
All well and good, but they riverdanced on this bloke's testicles for 6 and a half years in at least 4 different countries, and still couldn't build a case to take to any court.
It was only while in Cuba, after 3 countries and 2 years worth of Riverdancing that he 'voluteered' his confession.
Meanwhile, his case can be used as justification to dozens of young disaffected Muslims, and both governments have spent an absolute fortune on him.
This misappropriation and diversion of resources is just as likely to have somone slip through the net. By not having a means in place to process these individuals, they become a continuing admin burden, stretching the resources of the Intelligence Agencies when they should be trying to assess emerging threats.
 
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