2018/19 Idrissa Gueye

[BlueToff]

@Stephenlloyd here's the offensive stats between Gana and Kante for last season.

Gana/Kante (bold is the one who is 'the best')

Goals
2/1
Goals per match
0.06/0.03
Minutes per goal
1,379/2,998
Shots
23/25
Shots on target
7/5
Shots off target
10/6
Shooting accuracy %
41.18/45.5
Shooting success %
8.70/4.00
Penalties scored
0/0
Penalties saved
0/0
Penalties missed
0/0
Penalties won
0/0
Freekicks scored
0/0
Goals with right foot
2/1
Goals with left foot
0/0
Headed goals
0/0
Goals from inside box
1/0
Goals from outside box
1/1
Hit woodwork
0/0
Big chances scored
1/0
Big chances missed
1/0

 

[bluestevon]

I don't lack 'football common sense'. I watch enough of it friggin' hell. Don't claim to be an expert but when you write seven or eight match reports every week you get a feel for things.

I don't think you're wrong in saying he's a 'poor passer'. I agree entirely that is not the strongest part of his game. But if you're asking Gana to be the playmaker then you take away everything he's good at (which the stats prove he is currently the best in the league at, btw).

And no, you act like every pass he plays is wrong. That is categorically incorrect, and the stats back this up. Your response is just 'stats mean what you want them to mean'. Well sideways and back passes don't count as forward passes, and bare in mind I work with Opta day in day out.

I'm not saying we couldn't do without Gana. I think we can, in certain games. In other games, we need him. We missed him on Saturday, hugely.

Also, here are the defensive stats you requested between Gana and Kante for last season.

Gana/Kante (bold is the one who is 'the best')

Clean sheets
6/12

Goals conceded
42/32

Blocks
9/4

Interceptions
62/85

Tackles
117/113

Tackles won
93/77

Last man tackles
0/1

Clearances
42/26

Headed clearances
13/10

Aerial battles won
33/17

Own goals
0/0

Errors leading to goal
0/0

Penalties conceded
0/0

Here's the thing about Gueye though mste for me, yup he can lead all Europe in essence on every defensive stat catagory, but can guarantee that not a single one of the top defensive midfielders gives the ball away suicidally a 10th as often as he does.

His pass % etc is fine, but when he turns the ball over with a complete nonsensical pass in stupid areas more often than any rated defensive mid I've seen.

It also has nothing to do with quality of players around him either as I've seen him do it with dross here and seen him do it with the same regularity with Gomes alongside him.

 

[BlueToff]

@Stephenlloyd distribution/general stats.

Gana/Kante (bold the best)

Assists
1/1
Big chances created
1/4
Passes
1,566/2,150
Pass completion %
84.74/89.26
Passes forward
480/593
Passes backward
272/303
Touches
2,103/2,672
Through balls
1/9
Crosses
11/13
Dispossessed
32/42

So, as you can see, Kante has the better stats in this overall.

However, your 'Gana always passes back' jibe could equally be levelled at Kante, who played more backwards passes.

 

[BlueToff]

Here's the thing about Gueye though mste for me, yup he can lead all Europe in essence on every defensive stat catagory, but can guarantee that not a single one of the top defensive midfielders gives the ball away suicidally a 10th as often as he does.

His pass % etc is fine, but when he turns the ball over with a complete nonsensical pass in stupid areas more often than any rated defensive mid I've seen.

It also has nothing to do with quality of players around him either as I've seen him do it with dross here and seen him do it with the same regularity with Gomes alongside him.

I've just posted Kante's passing stats matey which disprove that.

I agree entirely that Gana's passing can be poor. But it's not that he gives the ball away in bad positions all of the time (though it does happen sometimes).

It's because we play with him as our deepest player so if he's driving forward it means that in all likelihood, we don't have anyone covering.

That's context. That's as much down to a system that we play as it is Gana's sloppy pass.

It's not the quality around him, it's the system. If Kante gives the ball away now for Chelsea, they have Jorginho covering. But last season when he gave the ball away, they didn't.

 

[Parker]

@Stephenlloyd distribution/general stats.

Gana/Kante (bold the best)

Assists
1/1
Big chances created
1/4
Passes
1,566/2,150
Pass completion %
84.74/89.26
Passes forward
480/593
Passes backward
272/303
Touches
2,103/2,672
Through balls
1/9
Crosses
11/13
Dispossessed
32/42

So, as you can see, Kante has the better stats in this overall.

However, your 'Gana always passes back' jibe could equally be levelled at Kante, who played more backwards passes.

*Drops mic and calculates mic drop to post ratio*

 

[BlueToff]

Not all forward passes are the same.

Kantes passing is better than Ganas. There literally isn't even a debate to be had.

It is, he's a better passer.

However, their stats aren't that much different.

Would I rather have Kante on the ball than Gana? Yes, definitely. But that doesn't make Gana a bad player. It also doesn't negate what Gana is excellent at.

We miss him in certain games and in other games he's not as useful as perhaps we need but he's easily one of our best two midfielders so that's why him and Gomes start.

Davies will likely get a chance to stamp himself in the team over Christmas and hopefully he does because he's definitely a 'better' passer than Gana in that he has an eye for a pass, even if he pulls those passes off a lot less.

 

[bluestevon]

I've just posted Kante's passing stats matey which disprove that.

I agree entirely that Gana's passing can be poor. But it's not that he gives the ball away in bad positions all of the time (though it does happen sometimes).

It's because we play with him as our deepest player so if he's driving forward it means that in all likelihood, we don't have anyone covering.

That's context. That's as much down to a system that we play as it is Gana's sloppy pass.

It's not the quality around him, it's the system. If Kante gives the ball away now for Chelsea, they have Jorginho covering. But last season when he gave the ball away, they didn't.

Seen enough of Kante at both Leicester and Chelsea to know that yes he does misplace passes, but when he does mate they don't cause his team a major problem, both players can misplace three passes a game, seems equal, until the first ones are looked at and they are three overhit ones that led to goalkicks or throw ins and the others where three passes as the deepest lying midfielder straight in the centre of the park to the opponent leaving us outnumbered 4-3 on the counter for example.

I've seen enough if both players to know Kante almost never causes a defensive issue with his passing, Gueye frequently does do.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Not the Kante nonsense again for goodness sake.

Kante is a world class player. Just won a world cup.

Gueye is a bang average middle of the road top flight player who lacks the all round game to ever be a quality central midfielder.

We currently don't have better than Gueye in that role but he's one of the easiest players to replace. We need quality on the ball.

 

[BlueToff]

Seen enough of Kante at both Leicester and Chelsea to know that yes he does misplace passes, but when he does mate they don't cause his team a major problem, both players can misplace three passes a game, seems equal, until the first ones are looked at and they are three overhit ones that led to goalkicks or throw ins and the others where three passes as the deepest lying midfielder straight in the centre of the park to the opponent leaving us outnumbered 4-3 on the counter for example.

I've seen enough if both players to know Kante almost never causes a defensive issue with his passing, Gueye frequently does do.

Fair enough. I'd still argue that's in equal parts down to how the respective teams played, but I have no doubt that Kante is a better passer than Gana, none at all.

 

[BlueToff]

Not the Kante nonsense again for goodness sake.

Kante is a world class player. Just won a world cup.

Gueye is a bang average middle of the road top flight player who lacks the all round game to ever be a quality central midfielder.

We currently don't have better than Gueye in that role but he's one of the easiest players to replace. We need quality on the ball.

Tim mate, somebody brought the Kante comparisons up. They incorrectly stated that they'd 'bet their house' on Kante being better in all aspects. They were wrong.

Not once has anyone claimed that Gana is a better player. Kante is an exceptional footballer.

Gana is far from bang average, however. We miss him when he does not play, even though we do in certain situations need a better option.

I love Tanguy Ndombele. He's fantastic. Does he give the ball away in dangerous positions? Yes.

The criticism of Gana is hardly ever fair and measured, which is my problem. @bluestevon has just made a fair point which I can't disagree with, but most of the 'bang average' shouts are pretty ridiculous when you consider we look a completely different team without him.

I do think it's an area we can improve in. But it doesn't make Gana a bad player. And what he does best, he's currently the best in the league at. Whether that's because Kante is playing a different role is up for debate.

 

[Walken]

The church of gana hitting new levels of delusion here

 

[BlueToff]

The church of gana hitting new levels of delusion here

Why's that mate?

Because I posted stats which a poster asked for?

The lad's a good player. We missed him on Saturday.

Doesn't mean he's the best in der werld la, but he's far from a big issue in our side.

Can we adept our style moving forward so that Gana isn't needed? Possibly, and it's definitely an area where a more dominant, physically imposing player who also has that ability on the ball would help. But until then, he's more than good enough.

 

[Walken]

Why's that mate?

Because I posted stats which a poster asked for?

The lad's a good player. We missed him on Saturday.

Doesn't mean he's the best in der werld la, but he's far from a big issue in our side.

Can we adept our style moving forward so that Gana isn't needed? Possibly, and it's definitely an area where a more dominant, physically imposing player who also has that ability on the ball would help. But until then, he's more than good enough.

not sure the player who has been playing this month was missed, a top form gana maybe but you can say that about a few players who actually played. Other than that I would agree with your assessment, though his passing an issue for me and on occasion his positioning also, but I still want him fit for spurs

 

[BlueToff]

not sure the player who has been playing this month was missed, a top form gana maybe but you can say that about a few players who actually played. Other than that I would agree with your assessment, though his passing an issue for me and on occasion his positioning also, but I still want him fit for spurs

Think that's a fair point.

I'd argue that City away is exactly the type of game where Gana seems to refind that form, like.

Hopefully he's fit for Spurs. I've said several times, I'm happy if Davies comes in for games against teams we want a bit more urgency/forward momentum against. But that doesn't make Gana a bad player.

 

[Neiler]

Horses for courses player, hes a small mobile, defensive midfield player whos strengths are pressing with an aptitude to intercept and read the game positionally defensively. He suits most games and is great to have in the squad.

He get lost if there is a physical battle to be won or if we need to press or attack higher.

we need someone in the squad to compensate for the attributes he doesn't have a Doucure type with a big physical powerful presence and can offer a bit more to support the attack in certain games.