Is Moyes under-rated?

[Bruce Wayne]

There was an interesting article in the paper this morning on the new deal signed by Arsene Wenger at Arsenal. In the article they showed his stats in comparison both with former Arsenal managers and his rivals in the Premiership.

What interested me was that George Graham had a win percentage of 37%. Now he obviously won titles and is generally regarded as a successful manager. By contrast, David Moyes has a win percentage of 39%.

Intrigued I decided to do some more research into managers of yore. Kendall had a ratio of 53%, Dalglish won 52% whilst at Blackburn.

In modern times you have 71% for Mourinho, 63% for Ferguson and 59% for Wenger so it's relatively clear that the CL money has hugely distorted the PL. I just thought it interesting that Moyes compared so well to George Graham considering the trophies he won at Arsenal. It wouldn't surprise me that if he had been given a level playing field (as Kendall enjoyed) that he wouldn't have got up around the 50% mark too.

 

[Neiler]

Just to add a vatiable, Kendall and Graham managed primarily when there were 40 games a season.

Davey has mad to make do with the changing emphasis of the squad for his first three seasons, taking out wally's players and bringing in his own, there is only Grav, cars and stubbsey left at the mo. Surely getting rid of the deadwood dictated Moyes's first three years.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't think that has had a negative impact on his performance. There's a thread around here marking his 200th game in charge and I did some digging and his stats for the first and second 100 games are practically identical, quite scarily so actually.

 

[ToffeeMark]

I think Everton in general are under rated, every time, match of the day or sky sports news shows the league table they mention Liverpool, chelsea, arsenal man utd and tottenham, completely ignoring us and our impressive start.

And David Moyes is grossly under rated he's broke the big four monopoly, qualified us for europe twice and never really splashed out big, I think alot will be determined by how this summers signings perform... if he qualifies us for europe for a consecutive season and does well in the UEFA cup and the domestic comps then he'll be up for legend status

 

[teppic]

39% win ratio is nothing to crow about. i'm (a bit) surprised it is that low. if moyes is underrated at 39% it must mean we are all after his blood.

and george graham did win titles but the rest of his career was bloody horrible.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It needs to be put into context though doesn't it because the top four clubs all have what would have been championship winning averages in past years. Mourinho has a percentage of 71% for goodness sake.

 

[teppic]

sure the top smegging 4 have been competitive. we need to believe we can break this monopoly so not wishing to sound too toffeeweb.. 39% is nothing to be really proud about. sure.. it keeps free from the wolves of relegation but a 50% ratio should be the minimun we are looking for before we say people are underestimated.

 

[SuitsBlue]

we have to consider what bruce hinted at, the financial giants have bought the higher percentages, the knock on effect is that wins against them are rarer so the statistic is manipulated. if we could iron out [Poor language removed] performances (blackburn this - wigan and city and spurs all at home last) we would be obviously better off.

man ure have taken more points of us in the prem era than any other side.

thats not a particular favourite of mine.

i wonder what the win stats are if results against the so called top four arent counted.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's worth remembering that Kendall in his first spell with us had worse stats than all of the current top 4 managers (53%). Even Dalglish at Liverpool would have been outside the top 3. These are two managers that dominated in their respective eras. Even the likes of Shankly only had 51% records.

So yes, ordinarily a 50% record would be considered very good but we live in a time when Arsenal can go a season unbeaten, when Mourinho can win seven out of every ten games as manager, when Man Utd win title after title.

 

[monty]

Moyes isn't really rated that highly at present although we all know how great his achievements here are, long may it stay that way. People will not take any real notice of him until we have won something rather than being the perennial also rans, European qualification AND advancement will also be needed to help his CV

 

[TX Bill]

...of course people might also say, "What might Moyes be able to do with a budget like the Big 4?"

Gotta look at both sides of the equation.

For me, Moyes was and is a steal of a manager. To do what he's done under the constraints he's had is nothing short of marvelous.

In all honesty, you couldn't name a manager currently managing anywhere that I'd rather have over Moyes.

Yeah yeah, start naming the usual suspects like Hiddink, Mourinho, Ferguson, O'Neill. Sure, all good managers.

But for our situation at Everton, I think Moyes fits perfectly. I think the players respond to him and he responds to the players. There isn't anyone I'd rather have.

IMWT.

 

[CanadaToffee]

Ferguson took 5 years to transform ManU from an underachieving mid-table team to champions.

Moyes has taken 5 years to transform Everton from relegation-fighters to top 6 / UEFA level.

Moyes could be to Everton what Shankly was to some obscure team a few decades ago.

 

[Axlswhk]

Like I mention before, I don't regard moyes as a legend, at least not now. He did well to develope the team to what it is today, however if I judge him by the expectation I have for the manager of everton(whoever it may be), he's just on par. Having said that, if we can sustain our improvement for the next 5 years we might have a good chance of delivering some silverware. Until then, my opinion remains unchanged.

 

[Blue Wiz]

If you look at how much the squad has improved under Moyes, the quality of players coming in, in contrast to the last managers before him he's way better. However I don't think Moyes in underrated.

1. He has been voted best manager twice during his 5 years with us.
2. He has taken us from a scrapping relegatebattling side to a side able to compete in Europe and beat the top teams on a good day.
3. Everton is now a force to be reconed with, with a starting eleven most, if not all, teams in the league have the biggest respect for.
4. Visiting teams, instead of coming to Goodison facing a hoofing team trying to cling on for a stray goal to grab some points, they now come here to face an attacking side who can score from all type of play and most teams are happy coming away from here with a single point.

I don't think it's fair to just look at his winning percentage alone. It's important yes, but equally important is his loosing percentage. If I remember Waynes post of Moyes stats correctly, we do take points in more games than not.. (about 75% I believe it is we grab spoils in).

Loosing 1 game in 4 isn't that bad actually... it's a good start and foundation to build on.

 

[Robert Jarvis]

Good points Blue. looks like we are getting there.