Joel Robles

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Out of interest, how long would his good run need to continue for you to consider him top class?

I think there's a few things he'd need

He'd need to start kicking better and he'd need to make better decisions as you've already stated. My fear is that he won't be able to though, but I'm willing to give him more time on that front. What annoys me more is people refusing to admit that his kicking is bad, because that's a blatant lie that helps no one. There's nothing wrong with admitting that he isn't any good at kicking, because there's still time for him to correct it. And even if he can only get to a passable level at it, if he gets stronger in the other areas at the same time then it's not as big of an issue as the weakness in one area will be offset by strengths in the other ones

But most importantly he'd need to do it over a prolonged period of time to the same standard of the other top keepers in the League. I'm talking 1-2 full seasons of him playing at a top level. Partly he hasn't been able to do that because he's been in and out of the side, which isn't his fault and is again a reason why I'm willing to give him more time based off this current good run

For that reason, I'm willing to go with what others have said and keep him in at the start of next season with a better CB than Funes Mori in front of him. If we still ship silly goals at that point with better CB's, then we'll have a better idea of his own personal level of culpability when it comes to this area

If with better CB's in front of him he goes on a shut out streak, we'll know that it was more down to the previous defenders rather than than his own keeping, which will highlight that he does have considerably more chops between the sticks than some of us previously thought (This will also have the additional knock on effect of partly exonerating Stekky, because he was also playing behind the same defence and I've regularly said that they were culpable for a lot of the goals conceded on his watch)

So I'm okay with him getting more of a chance, but I think we need to tread softly here and be painstakingly honest when it comes to appraising his ability. What we can't do is let the hype train get rolling before he's truly proven himself, and I'd like to make a concerted plea to his fans to just ease off a little bit and stop pretending things are there which aren't. Be a bit more honest and maybe even slightly harsher when looking at his performances. If you love him, then the best thing is not to smother him. Sure, come to his aid when people are overly harsh and unfair, but when it's reasoned and fair criticism don't just head straight for the pitchforks either. It'd be massively appreciated

 

[Joey66]

I think there's a few things he'd need

He'd need to start kicking better and he'd need to make better decisions as you've already stated. My fear is that he won't be able to though, but I'm willing to give him more time on that front. What annoys me more is people refusing to admit that his kicking is bad, because that's a blatant lie that helps no one. There's nothing wrong with admitting that he isn't any good at kicking, because there's still time for him to correct it. And even if he can only get to a passable level at it, if he gets stronger in the other areas at the same time then it's not as big of an issue as the weakness in one area will be offset by strengths in the other ones

But most importantly he'd need to do it over a prolonged period of time to the same standard of the other top keepers in the League. I'm talking 1-2 full seasons of him playing at a top level. Partly he hasn't been able to do that because he's been in and out of the side, which isn't his fault and is again a reason why I'm willing to give him more time based off this current good run

For that reason, I'm willing to go with what others have said and keep him in at the start of next season with a better CB than Funes Mori in front of him. If we still ship silly goals at that point with better CB's, then we'll have a better idea of his own personal level of culpability when it comes to this area

If with better CB's in front of him he goes on a shut out streak, we'll know that it was more down to the previous defenders rather than than his own keeping, which will highlight that he does have considerably more chops between the sticks than some of us previously thought (This will also have the additional knock on effect of partly exonerating Stekky, because he was also playing behind the same defence and I've regularly said that they were culpable for a lot of the goals conceded on his watch)

But yeah, I'm okay with him getting more of a chance, but I think we need to tread softly here and be painstakingly honest when it comes to appraising his ability. What we can't do is let the hype train get rolling before he's truly proven himself, and I'd like to plea to his fans to just ease off a little bit and stop pretending things are there which aren't

Did you ever see big Nev when he started off - Robles is in the top four this season with a mere handful of games at the age of 26 - his ability is there it never will go away as he has youth on his side maybe Koeman will judge him at the end of the season to offer him a nice contract Robles could save us millions on another keeper who may be worse!
A promising younger no 2 is the answer saying goodbye to the older injury prone Stek imo!

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Did you ever see big Nev when he started off - Robles is in the top four this season with a mere handful of games at the age of 26 - his ability is there it never will go away as he has youth on his side maybe Koeman will judge him at the end of the season to offer him a nice contract Robles could save us millions on another keeper who may be worse!
A promising younger no 2 is the answer saying goodbye to the older injury prone Stek imo!

That's your opinion mate and you're entitled to it, but I'm not sold yet, and I think people like yourself are over hyping Robles before he's truly proven himself. I also strongly believe that this type of over hype does not help him, and I'm actually starting to get a bit worried for him because I've seen how the Deulofeu situation played out and I'd be sad to see the same thing happen to Robles, because he doesn't deserve that

Plus, if arguments are going to be made that the defence is more to blame for us conceding goals and Robles is not, how come the same consideration has not been made for Stekelenberg? Why is there a double standard? Just because he is older? How is that fair? Surely if the defence can cause Robles to concede goals it also stands to reason that they could do the same for Stekelenberg does it not?

That's all people like me are saying. We believe that Robles and Stekelenberg are being held to different standards and that Robles abilities are being exaggerated by his fan base, whilst Stekelenberg's are being unfairly downplayed

All we ask is that Robles be held to a reasonable level of critical consideration and that both keepers are rated on an even playing field, as opposed to Robles always getting the benefit of the doubt and Stekelenberg always getting treated like the proverbial red headed step child (No offence intended to any red heads amongst us)

Basically, this is a plea for the Robles fan base to not fight and scratch over every single piece of criticism sent his way, however minor it may be. It is a plea to them to not keep pretending that his kicking doesn't need a massive improvement. It is a plea to not act like everything he does is fantastic and that he is on par with all the top keepers and a possible future De Gea

Now, it might be that the Robles fans are not capable of this. If that is the case then I will voluntarily not post in this particular thread. If you want a "safe space" to shower Robles with praise, then I can respect that. I admire your dedication to the lad and I'm happy for him because he seems like a decent bloke. It's good that he has a following, and long may it continue. I don't want to upset people or rile people up in anyway. I will simply post any critiques of Robles in other threads and not step on your toes in here

I don't have an agenda here. I like Robles and nothing would please me more if he was good enough to be a top keeper for us because, as you say, it would save us a lot of money and would also leave a role for Stekelenberg as back up. But I'm not going to pretend things are there that aren't, sorry I'm just not. If he does well, I'll recognise it and if doesn't do well I'm afraid I'm going to mention it, and if I think we need another keeper other than him then I'm afraid I'm going to say so. All I ask is that you respect that, and I will in turn respect your opinions. Thank you

 

[Joey66]

That's your opinion mate and you're entitled to it, but I'm not sold yet, and I think people like yourself are over hyping Robles before he's truly proven himself. I also strongly believe that this type of over hype does not help him, and I'm actually starting to get a bit worried for him because I've seen how the Deulofeu situation played out and I'd be sad to see the same thing happen to Robles, because he doesn't deserve that

Plus, if arguments are going to be made that the defence is more to blame for us conceding goals and Robles is not, how come the same consideration has not been made for Stekelenberg? Why is there a double standard? Just because he is older? How is that fair? Surely if the defence can cause Robles to concede goals it also stands to reason that they could do the same for Stekelenberg does it not?

That's all people like me are saying. We believe that Robles and Stekelenberg are being held to different standards and that Robles abilities are being exaggerated by his fan base, whilst Stekelenberg's are being unfairly downplayed

All we ask is that Robles be held to a reasonable level of critical consideration and that both keepers are rated on an even playing field, as opposed to Robles always getting the benefit of the doubt and Stekelenberg always getting treated like the proverbial red headed step child (No offence intended to any red heads amongst us)

Basically, this is a plea for the Robles fan base to not fight and scratch over every single piece of criticism sent his way, however minor it may be. It is a plea to them to not keep pretending that his kicking doesn't need a massive improvement. It is a plea to not act like everything he does is fantastic and that he is on par with all the top keepers and a possible future De Gea

Now, it might be that the Robles fans are not capable of this. If that is the case then I will voluntarily not post in this particular thread. If you want a "safe space" to shower Robles with praise, then I can respect that. I admire your dedication to the lad and I'm happy for him because he seems like a decent bloke. It's good that he has a following, and long may it continue. I don't want to upset people or rile people up in anyway. I will simply post any critiques of Robles in other threads and not step on your toes in here

I don't have an agenda here. I like Robles and nothing would please me more if he was good enough to be a top keeper for us because, as you say, it would save us a lot of money and would also leave a role for Stekelenberg as back up. But I'm not going to pretend things are there that aren't, sorry I'm just not. If he does well, I'll recognise it and if doesn't do well I'm afraid I'm going to mention it, and if I think we need another keeper other than him then I'm afraid I'm going to say so. All I ask is that you respect that, and I will in turn respect your opinions. Thank you

Ok defend the UNT game at home were the STEK just ran out blindly for a simple lobbed goal cost us 3 points - mate howard was doing this and getting picked - Robles came in for an injury, and has done far better than what you make out!
He has saved us points not given them away Stek started well - then he looked like Timmy a shot stopper- Robles is the real deal controls his box and his distribution is far better than you make out also!

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Ok defend the UNT game at home were the STEK just ran out blindly for a simple lobbed goal cost us 3 points - mate howard was doing this and getting picked - Robles came in for an injury, and has done far better than what you make out!
He has saved us points not given them away Stek started well - then he looked like Timmy a shot stopper- Robles is the real deal controls his box and his distribution is far better than you make out also!

How bad do I make Robles out to be mate?

Because as far as I can see I've said a lot of positive things about him in the past page or so

The difference is, the praise I give him isn't OTT like you and your fellow Robles fans give him

I've said he's had a decent run and should be allowed to keep it going. What I haven't called him is "the real deal" or "first class" or suggested he could be as good as De Gea

I've also defended Stekelenberg as being better than people say. I've not said he's amazing, but I've said he's got more in the bank than others do and that I'm fine with either of them starting at the moment

Your response to me now does nothing but prove my point. You are not holding both keepers to the same standard and you are being hyperbolic in the praise of one whilst being equally so in the other direction for his compatriot

The sad thing is Joey that even though you mean well, this overhype does not help Robles. In fact, it hurts him. His kicking is awful, just awful. Saying otherwise won't change this and just gives him a free pass in an area he desperately, desperately needs to improve if he's ever going to be a top keeper in this or any other League

His shot stopping is very good, as is his keeping in 1v1 situations. He's good/very good at commanding his box and crosses depending on the game but it fluctuates. As @TheCount has said, this could get better as his decision making gets better. That isn't me talking him down, that's me giving him a fair appraisal.

He isn't the finished article and he isn't "the real deal" no matter how much you argue the contrary Joey. Please, just try and take your fan goggles off and give him a balanced view, and also stop dumping on Stekelenberg as a way to make Robles look better by comparison. If Robles is as good as you say, you shouldn't need to do this

 

[Saint Domingo]

Most teams in the league would swap their keeper for Robles in his current form and yet we're arguing about whether he needs to do it for 2 seasons to be considered good enough or not. Meanwhile people were happy with Howard throwing the ball in his net most games or Pickford on the back of a few games whereas Robles needs 2 seasons.

Quite simply because he was a cheap Martinez but who started off shakily people are now refusing to acknowledge his form in the same light as his peers. If Robles had made the mistakes Loris or Cech had recently there'd he falls for his head. As it is he's still being questioned even though he's been mostly error free.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Most teams in the league would swap their keeper for Robles in his current form and yet we're arguing about whether he needs to do it for 2 seasons to be considered good enough or not. Meanwhile people were happy with Howard throwing the ball in his net most games or Pickford on the back of a few games whereas Robles needs 2 seasons.

Quite simply because he was a cheap Martinez but who started off shakily people are now refusing to acknowledge his form in the same light as his peers. If Robles had made the mistakes Loris or Cech had recently there'd he falls for his head. As it is he's still being questioned even though he's been mostly error free.

He's done very well recently, and good on him for doing so, but he needs to do it consistently

I'm not in the Pickford Camp, but you can't complain at those guys praising him off a short run and then declare that Robles having a good 2-3 months all of a sudden proves he's the real deal in the same post without it being ridiculous

I've defended plenty of Martinez signings, visit the Jimmy Mac thread if you don't believe me

I'm not even saying Robles is bad either, what I'm saying is there are clearly areas of his game that need to be better which are being excused by his fan base. He is being overhyped by some, and I don't see how anyone could say otherwise at this current juncture

He should be allowed to stay in, he's earned that, and I'm fine with him starting next season behind a better defence, but he's still got a long way to go before I'll define him as a top class keeper. A good keeper? No doubt. A keeper good enough for a top 4 side competing in Europe? No way, not yet, but I'm not saying he won't get there. Will he ever be on par with De Gea? Never

 

[whiteshadow]

So I'm okay with him getting more of a chance, but I think we need to tread softly here and be painstakingly honest when it comes to appraising his ability. What we can't do is let the hype train get rolling before he's truly proven himself, and I'd like to make a concerted plea to his fans to just ease off a little bit and stop pretending things are there which aren't.

Like you did with Shane Duffy?

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think there's a few things he'd need

He'd need to start kicking better and he'd need to make better decisions as you've already stated. My fear is that he won't be able to though, but I'm willing to give him more time on that front. What annoys me more is people refusing to admit that his kicking is bad, because that's a blatant lie that helps no one. There's nothing wrong with admitting that he isn't any good at kicking, because there's still time for him to correct it. And even if he can only get to a passable level at it, if he gets stronger in the other areas at the same time then it's not as big of an issue as the weakness in one area will be offset by strengths in the other ones

But most importantly he'd need to do it over a prolonged period of time to the same standard of the other top keepers in the League. I'm talking 1-2 full seasons of him playing at a top level. Partly he hasn't been able to do that because he's been in and out of the side, which isn't his fault and is again a reason why I'm willing to give him more time based off this current good run

For that reason, I'm willing to go with what others have said and keep him in at the start of next season with a better CB than Funes Mori in front of him. If we still ship silly goals at that point with better CB's, then we'll have a better idea of his own personal level of culpability when it comes to this area

If with better CB's in front of him he goes on a shut out streak, we'll know that it was more down to the previous defenders rather than than his own keeping, which will highlight that he does have considerably more chops between the sticks than some of us previously thought (This will also have the additional knock on effect of partly exonerating Stekky, because he was also playing behind the same defence and I've regularly said that they were culpable for a lot of the goals conceded on his watch)

So I'm okay with him getting more of a chance, but I think we need to tread softly here and be painstakingly honest when it comes to appraising his ability. What we can't do is let the hype train get rolling before he's truly proven himself, and I'd like to make a concerted plea to his fans to just ease off a little bit and stop pretending things are there which aren't. Be a bit more honest and maybe even slightly harsher when looking at his performances. If you love him, then the best thing is not to smother him. Sure, come to his aid when people are overly harsh and unfair, but when it's reasoned and fair criticism don't just head straight for the pitchforks either. It'd be massively appreciated

Can't argue with much of what you've said over the last few posts Mikey. I agree that kicking is still his biggest weakness but haven't given up hope he can improve in this area. I actually think his decision making is an area he's already improved immensely on previous seasons, along with his control of his own six yard box. He's a big guy and can still improve this area further, but I think he's so much more dominant this season. Also his concentration levels appear to have improved. He's not making many basic errors (can't really fault him with this, Sunderland game apart, since he took over from Howard last season) and has shown an ability to make crucial saves after being a near spectator for large periods.

I'm not sure if the improvement this season is down to maturity/experience, confidence, or the new goal keeping coach; perhaps a combination of each. But long may it continue. In goal keeping terms he is still very much a work in process. If he continues this form until the end of the season, then he deserves a shot at number 1 for next year together with a new contract. If he maintains his form next season, and improves further on his area's of weakness, then I think it would be fair to say we will have a top goalkeeper on our hands by the end of next season.

He will never be the shot stopper that De Gea is. He's just unreal and a once in a generation player. And I think it's also fair to say that he will never have the ball skill of Neuer. But he could be good enough to be our No 1 keeper for many years. I'm not saying we shouldn't replace him at some stage with a better keeper as we should always be looking to improve our starting 11. But if he continues this form and consistency he's shown over the last 10 games or so, it gives us more time and enables us to improve other area's of the team that are more pressing.

 

[whiteshadow]

A good keeper? No doubt. A keeper good enough for a top 4 side competing in Europe? No way, not yet, but I'm not saying he won't get there. Will he ever be on par with De Gea? Never

So, we've got the 4th best defence in the league, despite playing players like Mori and Jags who have been making mistakes often yet he's not good enough for a top 4 side?

The fact our defence is 4th best in the league dispproves your point.

I agree with your points about not overhyping him but I don't think your appraisal of him is fair. He's been really good this season, irrespective of what you think of his kicking, and he's helped win us games and earn points through his shot stopping and command of the area.

And no, I'm not saying he's top drawer or the next big thing. What I am saying is if he carries on performing at the level he is then he's good enough for us to break the top 4. Just look at our defensive record.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I'm not sure if the improvement this season is down to maturity/experience, confidence, or the new goal keeping coach; perhaps a combination of each. But long may it continue. In goal keeping terms he is still very much a work in process. If he continues this form until the end of the season, then he deserves a shot at number 1 for next year together with a new contract.

I agree mate

Sign some better defenders and then let him be our #1 from the start of next season and give him a full year between the sticks with Stekelenberg as back up

We'll have a much better idea of his ability then and, hopefully, he'll stake claim to the job full time from then onwards

Again, I've got no agenda here. I wish him well and hope he keeps getting better

I'm just not willing to overlook his weaknesses as others seem to (Which is not addressed to yourself btw. You've given a balanced and fair appraisal)

 

[Saint Domingo]

Whenever he has had a run in the team he's played well. Under two different managers he's displaced their first choice number 1s. That takes an awful lot of work and doesn't happen very often. The difference is that Robles is often viewed as not good enough to be top class whereas Howard was viewed as having just enough class to be just about good enough.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

So, we've got the 4th best defence in the league, despite playing players like Mori and Jags who have been making mistakes often yet he's not good enough for a top 4 side?

The fact our defence is 4th best in the league dispproves your point.

I agree with your points about not overhyping him but I don't think your appraisal of him is fair. He's been really good this season, irrespective of what you think of his kicking, and he's helped win us games and earn points through his shot stopping and command of the area.

And no, I'm not saying he's top drawer or the next big thing. What I am saying is if he carries on performing at the level he is then he's good enough for us to break the top 4. Just look at our defensive record.

If we're the same position at the end of the 17/18 season where he's been our first choice keeper, then you can make that argument, not before

Hopefully we will be

Again, I'd give him the job next season with a better defence in front of him, I'm just not going to go OTT with praise at this current juncture

 

[Joey66]

How bad do I make Robles out to be mate?

Because as far as I can see I've said a lot of positive things about him in the past page or so

The difference is, the praise I give him isn't OTT like you and your fellow Robles fans give him

I've said he's had a decent run and should be allowed to keep it going. What I haven't called him is "the real deal" or "first class" or suggested he could be as good as De Gea

I've also defended Stekelenberg as being better than people say. I've not said he's amazing, but I've said he's got more in the bank than others do and that I'm fine with either of them starting at the moment

Your response to me now does nothing but prove my point. You are not holding both keepers to the same standard and you are being hyperbolic in the praise of one whilst being equally so in the other direction for his compatriot

The sad thing is Joey that even though you mean well, this overhype does not help Robles. In fact, it hurts him. His kicking is awful, just awful. Saying otherwise won't change this and just gives him a free pass in an area he desperately, desperately needs to improve if he's ever going to be a top keeper in this or any other League

His shot stopping is very good, as is his keeping in 1v1 situations. He's good/very good at commanding his box and crosses depending on the game but it fluctuates. As @TheCount has said, this could get better as his decision making gets better. That isn't me talking him down, that's me giving him a fair appraisal.

He isn't the finished article and he isn't "the real deal" no matter how much you argue the contrary Joey. Please, just try and take your fan goggles off and give him a balanced view, and also stop dumping on Stekelenberg as a way to make Robles look better by comparison. If Robles is as good as you say, you shouldn't need to do this

Your trying to sit on the fence - I only guess you have been a Robles detractor in the past sorry if I am wrong, if I right your posts reflect that point!

 

[whiteshadow]

Most teams in the league would swap their keeper for Robles in his current form and yet we're arguing about whether he needs to do it for 2 seasons to be considered good enough or not. Meanwhile people were happy with Howard throwing the ball in his net most games or Pickford on the back of a few games whereas Robles needs 2 seasons.

Quite simply because he was a cheap Martinez but who started off shakily people are now refusing to acknowledge his form in the same light as his peers. If Robles had made the mistakes Loris or Cech had recently there'd he falls for his head. As it is he's still being questioned even though he's been mostly error free.

Totally agree with this. I'm not saying Robles is world class or top drawer or whatever but a lot of people aren't judging his current form fairly. He's been great this season, saved us on several occasions in matches.

Sometimes people see what they 'want' to see in players (to justify their origianal perception) rather than what's there.

I know I wasn't convinced by Robles when he first played for us but if he carries on playing how he is he deserves to be our no 1 and don't need to replace him in the summer.