Justice

[GhostOfDixie]

Ok, I'm just wondering when these Liverpool fans are shouting for justice for the 96. What do they want? I actually think many of them now are confused as to what is the real issue, and who has committed a crime.

Some are saying it's the Police,
Some are saying it's the Sun. Not sure what the newspaper did to kill those innocent fans. They reported mindlessly, which is what they always do. Although what they said, be it a little insensitive, wasn't completely untrue.

The way I see it is this. There is a high element of cause and effect. One event took place, which forced another issue, which then created a tragedy and a disaster.

Many fans turned up at the gates late and without tickets. The police were forced into making a decision, and they made the wrong one. For that they are guilty of negligence as they owed a duty of care to the one's already in the ground.

The fans though that had turned up and were rushing the gates in my eyes are very much to blame. If they behaved in a more rational manner, then we may have had a different outcome.

Basically what I am saying is the Police hadn't made that decision 3 hours before that they were going to open the gates and allow all these fans to flood in. Yet many of these fans had made their decision what they were going to do, probably the week before.

It's a touchy subject, but I would like to investigate the fans here, as it's far too easy to put all the blame on the police.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Oh dear Ghost.

I suggest you do some wider reading mate. Maybe start here;

Julian Cope presents Head Heritage | U-Know! | Features | Hillsborough: Twenty Years, No Justice

A few people did get well treated; again, just the police. Police sergeant Martin Long was awarded an estimated £330,000 compensation for post-traumatic stress disorder after witnessing the tragedy. That's a hundred times what Anne Williams received for the loss of her son Kevin.

and

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2004/apr/15/sport.comment4

As for the Sun Ghost, imagine someone very close to you died tomorrow, and a newspaper ran a front page story titled "The Truth" and accused you of pissing and robbing their dead carcass, while also abusing any person offering aid that was being offered prior their death. Only "a little insensitive"??

I'll admit I was tempted to close this as it could easily get out of hand, am trusting you all to keep it civil.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

First of all mate, there is no need to patronise me.

Second of all, The Sun saying what they were saying is shocking, but how is them saying sorry going to effect anything?

But close it mate. You may as well.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Read it, and although it is a very one sided reported it does highlight some misgivens by the police.

But I know that, what I have been saying is, how much of a factor were the fans turning up late and trying to get into the ground without tickets?

Is this really a topic that is not allowed to be talked about?

Or do we just instantly blow up in a rage and say - The ******* Sun lied, we want justice, or the Police lied, we want justice.

Let's be honest here, it isn't the first time the liverpool fans have been out of order.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

behaviour since then is something i bring up with kopites that i know, i am fully behind them obtaining justice for the '96 but lets not go en masse to a c.l. final in athens with photocopies of tickets etc and swamp the gates to force entry to the stadium, you can't behave in such a way and then stand singing for justice.

to me that just reeks of hypocrisy and undermines the case for justice for those fans that didnt come home from sheffield that day.

people i know who as teenagers were pulled from leppings lane that day, did just that in athens and they were by no means in a minority.

at hillsbrough there were many contributing factors including the design of the stadium, wether or not some of the blame is in the hands of the supporters outside is irrelevant as other things have been found to be bigger contributing factors.

R.I.P. the '96, the effects i felt following that day will never be forgotten by me and i will always remember it in the way it was at the time, many young innocent lives lost in the most horrendous way, and i will never lose sight of the fact that only for fate it could well have been me and fellow Evertonians that were brought home in boxes.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

behaviour since then is something i bring up with kopites that i know, i am fully behind them obtaining justice for the '96 but lets not go en masse to a c.l. final in athens with photocopies of tickets etc and swamp the gates to force entry to the stadium, you can't behave in such a way and then stand singing for justice.

to me that just reeks of hypocrisy and undermines the case for justice for those fans that didnt come home from sheffield that day.

people i know who as teenagers were pulled from leppings lane that day, did just that in athens and they were by no means in a minority.

at hillsbrough there were many contributing factors including the design of the stadium, wether or not some of the blame is in the hands of the supporters outside is irrelevant as other things have been found to be bigger contributing factors.

R.I.P. the '96, the effects i felt following that day will never be forgotten by me and i will always remember it in the way it was at the time, many young innocent lives lost in the most horrendous way, and i will never lose sight of the fact that only for fate it could well have been me and fellow Evertonians that were brought home in boxes.

Great response, and very true.

Yet still we are not allowed to look at the fans without The Sun being brought up.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

First of all mate, there is no need to patronise me.

Second of all, The Sun saying what they were saying is shocking, but how is them saying sorry going to effect anything?

But close it mate. You may as well.

Didn't patronise you?

The Sun saying sorry doesn't achieve much but I can understand the boycott. I wont buy the Sun.

Personally think the emphasis should be on "Remember the 96" - rather than "Justice".

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Didn't patronise you?

The Sun saying sorry doesn't achieve much but I can understand the boycott. I wont buy the Sun.

Ok fair enough.

But my choice not to buy the Sun is based on the fact that it's ****e journalism and littered with people who choose to sensationalise over educate. The same goes for the Star and the Mirror now.

I never bought the Sun because of it's lack of intelligence. The fact that the Liverpool fans are after Justice from the Sun is pathetic.

Have Liverpool ever apologised for Heysel? Do the Juventus fans want justice? Or did that event fall into insignificance because of Hillsborough?

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

i wont even open someone elses copy of the sun/ n.o.w., i even try not to ever open a page on their website. although i like many others listen to talksport which he owned, but like the sun he has nothing to do with anymore.

 

[tezzathelezza]

Mods. Close this thread right now. Not only will this open the biggest can off worms ever on this site, it will no doubt get some bad replies from other blues ****ging off the disaster. It will only ignite the hate fuelled passion the both side off this city that we only seem to of known in recent years.

And From a personal point off view, i lost a family member in the disaster. Boys and girls, hope you agree that this "subject" should not be open to discussion on THIS site. Go to blue kipper, NSNO etc

DO THE RIGHT THING MODS

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Mods. Close this thread right now. Not only will this open the biggest can off worms ever on this site, it will no doubt get some bad replies from other blues ****ging off the disaster. It will only ignite the hate fuelled passion the both side off this city that we only seem to of known in recent years.

And From a personal point off view, i lost a family member in the disaster. Boys and girls, hope you agree that this "subject" should not be open to discussion on THIS site. Go to blue kipper, NSNO etc

DO THE RIGHT THING MODS

Have to agree with closing it (mainly due to now being online all tomorrow to monitor). Hope nobody minds. I dont think any of our members would give "bad replies from other blues ****ging off the disaster" though.