Manager Choice - Why Not?

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GMan1878

Player Valuation: £150k
The Club should go & get David Moyes.
Before ignoring this thread Please read the arguments FOR & maybe remember that if we can employ Benitez which was the most foolish idea we ever made then nobody else should be off the table in my opinion. ?

Why Moyes? (The Obvious)
Knows the club inside out.
Understands the ethos & history.
Knows what the fans expect.
Knows The Chairman very well.
Has the same ambitions as the club.


Why Moyes? (Less Obvious)
Knows how to Scout/Set up scout networks. He is 'involved' and watches potential players a lot before buying. He watched Felliani for years before buying him.
Meticulous in his player type acquisition and finding gems who are right fit for our club(Cahill, Coleman, Neville, Yobo, Jagielka, Stones, Baines, Felliani, Distin, Howard, Naismith, Pienaar, Arteta to name a few). Yes he didn't get them all right but nobody does and he had to scrape around for bargains. He has always been good at finding a player in The Championship for one thing. What he did get right almost all the time was building a competitive team consistently on a low budget, not just to signing players but also wages/contracts. He improved players and was very good at holding onto players until he made others (Man City Lescott/Stones) pay top dollar. I tell you what he didn't do very often.. He didn't buy a player for £24million, pay him £70k a week then sell him for £12mill a year later (Klaassan). He didn't sign a player for £27million who has only scored 9 goals since 2018, cost £60k a week and is now practically worthless (Tosan). There is a long list of these as we know.
Moyes is now also finding a way to beat the top teams at West Ham which didn't happen before.

Likely Arguments against
Moyes left the club to take Man ure job.
He was handpicked by SAF for a job managing 1 of the world's biggest 'current' clubs whether we like it or not.
He had spent 11yrs working on a shoe-string budget and doing well. Would anyone not like the chance of a blank cheque opportunity with a massive club particularly when the greatest Manager of his generation wanted him to do it? You can't blame a Man for being ambitious, if he wasn't ambitious he would never have been offered the job in the first place or done so well for us. We forgave Rooney (Scouser not a Scot) and he gave us far less than 11 yrs in The Prem.
Moyes came back and bought Felliani from us (But the club made a £12.5m profit on the sale plus I think it unlikely Fellaini would have been as effective under Martinez anyway).
Tried to sign Baines and then made a statement about Everton holding back their careers, Baines & Felliani. This was poor/wrong and a mistake & is difficult to forgive BUT it's worth looking at his perspective. He went to Man Ure, he was under intense pressure to take on the SAF standard which was a hiding to nothing, he wasn't rated by Man Ure players (Ferdinand and others) and it was quickly apparent. His desire to sign Baines and Felliani was desperation, determination to not only keep his job but bring in players who of course liked/understood and supported him. Find me a Manager who doesn't have his favourites, find me 1 single Manager who has spent a decade at 1 club & doesn't want to come back to dip in for a player or two. He felt he earned the right and I don't like it but I understand it. A good Manager regularly does this (It wasn't disrespect, it was arrogant ues but mainly it was desperation) & whilst that's not 'OK' for us as fans.. Its far more forgivable than plenty of other things (Like Rafael taking a job because it was convenient for where he wanted to live).
You might argue Moyes has been rubbish since he left! Well yes at first he struggled but now at West Ham, like any strong Manager he has rebuilt his stock back up and I take my hat off to a man who fell out of The Prem, had to go places like Sunderland but now is back fighting near the top of the Premier league again. Reminds me of his stubborn character which you need at this level.
You can say he is a defensive coach and make that argument but I don't buy that. Let's be honest, there are very few attacking coaches in the world who achieve great things without lots of money and a world class squad. The ones at the top that do have the best players in every position, can play better football but only because they have the resource. If you are in the chasing pack you need to be good at defending otherwise you lose as many as you win and what's the point of that?

Why Would Moyes Do Well?
He has a HUGE point to prove.. (If you spent 11 yrs in any job but struggled to compete at the very top due to finances, yet managed to do well anyway... Why wouldn't you want to go back with access to funds and show 'What you can really do'?? He has unfinished business.
If you spent 11yrs in a job you have an affinity for it & wouldn't you enjoy being the man to take the club from your Old, Great BUT tired premises to a Magnificant new home (Goodison to Bramley Dock, The Peoples Project) - Could any other potential manager understand the significance of this move like Moyes? He gets it, he knows it, he lived it. Moyes was there when several other moves failed to materialise, he gets it 100%.
Moyes was always a team builder which is one of the reasons he didn't do well at Man UTD because they don't give you time to build one and that's what he does well. It's why he is doing well at West Ham, he is building a team his way (not a director of footballs way, his way) . Don't we all wish we had one of this type of Manager in the last 6 years instead of the scattergun sign anyone we fancy rubbish suggested by idiots in suits and then sack them and have to start again?
Moyes has learned A LOT since leaving & is a much better Manager for it. He is not the same as when he left. (He managed Man Ure, Sunderland, Real Sociedad and now West Ham) so has far more experience and knowhow than he did with Everton so is Well-Prepared to come back & do better than before, to step up a level or two.
I believe he is in the mould of SAF (hence SAF picked him) in that he would like to build a 'Dynasty' & go out having been THE Most successful Everton Manager ever and would bust a gut to do it. He is one of the very few British Managers who have the potential to deliver trophies and success. I don't dislike foreigners playing or managing but If I could choose I would prefer someone from the British Isles lead us. One of the reasons for that is they are less likely to want to leave at any point, lots of other reasons it's a nice fit.
He does have unfinished business which is obvious and frankly, given the Managers we've had since he left and what they achieved why on earth not want him back? We are in a mess and he would provide stability and long term improvement. If we don't want him because we don't like what he did ok but given what's been happening the last 6 years I think we need realise what is maybe best for our club (in my opinion) and take a more sensible approach. I don't think it is a sensible appointment, I just think it would be the right one.

Why would he leave West Ham?
It wouldn't be easy, he seems settled but for me it's all in The Pitch and determination we show to get him. How loyal is he to West Ham, really? He knows West Ham didn't renew his contract & got 'Pellegrini' in (Another Club who get turned on by big names without thinking it through) & then sacked him, realised their mistake and got Moyes back. No loyalty there by the club. I don't think Moyes will forget that, he wasn't first choice even after he took them away from relegation the first season.
West Ham fans complained constantly about his style of football (funny they're not complaining now but it didn't stop until all of a sudden they were competing).
He still has roots/home in Lancashire.
Salary - He started at West Ham on £3mill a season, his new contract is supposedly £5mill a season. Benitez and Ancelotti were on an absurd £10mill/£15mill depending on what is true or not. Moyes could comfortably enjoy a £2-£3mill payrise if he came back which is another reason to be optimistic. It also means that any compensation to West Ham is well within budget assuming we don't offer to pay the stupid money we did to Rafael and Carlo.
YES.. He has European football, yes West Ham have a good team, yes he is doing well but there is no reason why our project isn't more attractive long term. He is 58 yrs old (if he was a player he'd be in his prime) and could deliver something special over the next 10yrs taking him to 68... Then maybe hand over to a Big Dunc or Rooney or Baines or all 3 and hopefully then we are an established top 6 at the very least.

Everton Structure Changes
This is also why I want Moyes because any other Manager who comes in is likely to have a Board decision structure and frankly I don't think they know how!!! The last 6 years haven't worked, 2 Directors of Football (Walsh should never have had the job he was a Chief Scout NOT a director of football) & then the highly acclaimed Marcel Brands who didn't do much better, was paid an absolute fortune and fell out with Benitez. It has not worked and although both can claim the odd success both jobs were inadequate. Both spent silly money on players who just aren't the right calibre/fit for Everton. More to the point they did a job that a Manager and a scout network could do... why pay huge money again for a role that has failed for 6 years? All this we already know of course and FFP kicked in because of the absurd amount of transfer fees and wages spent (My favourite was Klaassan, bought for £23.6mill, paid £72k a week for a year, clearly didn't fit from day 1, left a Yr later for £13m and by the way is now earning £32k a week back at Ajax). What an absolute disaster and its far from the only one.
So the beauty of Moyes is he already knows what works, previously he was The 'Manager' of Everton, not the coach but The Manager. This new European Sporting Director model is flawed in my view because it adds authority/delay and conflict to a position of someone who doesn't run the squad. If you must have one then a Sporting Director should be an advisory support role, not a decision making role. Managers or the coach should have the final say (always) but not just that. They also must give the direction of what they want in terms of scouting, recruitment, short and long term player types etc in the first place. Manager and Director of Football (again if we must have one) should be at the same level and they report into the chairman. If they have a consensus the chairman reports into the owner and board. Having said all that, if it was me and its not me I'd interview Moyes and ask him... What structure suits you, what structure is best, in your opinion to reach our goals?. .and take it from there. That would be another potentially good reason why Moyes would want the role. Ultimately the structure has to change and whilst the board and Moshiri say they are having a strategic review.... what does that even mean? Are they going to look in the mirror and realise that they have all been crap?, I doubt it. Stinks of marking your own homework, maybe they've been watching the government and thought that's how to get things done let's do that!!!!! Truth is nothing done in 6 years has improved the team or the club, we have gone backwards from the day Martinez was sacked and the longer it's gone on the more embarrassing its been. Its NOT good enough. Everton have long been one of the most admired Clubs in the top division, pioneers, a proud well run club but that is disintegrating every year. I can't believe Bill doesn't stand looking in the mirror sometimes thinking 'I wanted a Billionaire but Oh my god what have I done, now I have one I'm not sure what to do with him?'.
I'd like to make another point about Moyes and Directors of Football. At West Ham it's Moyes picking the players, finding the gems and making the final decision. He overrules Men in suits being directors of Football and messing around with' Oh look I've found 4 players with an amazing player profile'..… How is that working? I swear directors of Football sit there playing Fifa on a Ps4 and recruit off the back of it. To back up my point about this and Moyes it was Moyes who brought in Craig Dawson. The West Ham fans were not happy, they hated it and thought it was a terrible signing. The board were not convinced either but because he wasn't silly money. And Moyes wanted him they agreed. Funnily enough, Dawson has been one of their standout performers and instrumental in keeping clean sheets and helping West Ham qualify for Europe. Would a foreign Manager even have thought of Craig Dawson?? Not in a million years! They'd have found a 23 Yr old centre back playing in a Farmers league and signed him for £25mill before realising he is useless in The Prem. Dawson is a bit of a Jags (although older) and we know how well he did. That's what Moyes does well, very well.

Summary
People say never go back. Well, it's too late for that, we are going backwards at an alarming rate. Our proud club is making a mockery of itself and people will not stop laughing at us until we make a good decision. We will spend the next 10 years hiring and firing, wasting money and not growing. For me, this is by far the best option, it's also arguably Everton saying, we made mistakes but we know what works well, we did it before and we are going to do it again with Moyes except this time he will have money to spend. I know a lot of people will rip me to bits for this and of course everyone is entitled to an opinion but I cannot see a better option, I really can't. 6yrs getting it badly wrong is enough to sit and think...we need to start over and do it properly.

Andy G
 


He's very settled at West Ham he has actually built something pretty solid through deft recruitment. Why would he forfeit those accomplishments so he could be stuck with a shambolic squad and a chaotic hostile environment , to start the process over again? It's like playing a video game where you're on the higher levels just to reset the game to the beginning.
 
I actually think he would entertain the idea, but he is under contract and at a club that would have no intention of letting him go.

Changing manager in-season can be difficult and we are past the stage now where we can poach managers from clubs well above us in the league, coming into February.

It's Lampard or Pereira, and needs to get done asap.
 
Really nice and well put-together argument, but I can't see Moyes coming back in the current situation. Why would he when it's such a complete and utter shambles. West Ham have a really competitive team and it will re-build his reputation post Everton years. I also think it will be another appointment that will divide the fanbase. Again he would have to hit the ground running and would be given no time to bed-in. I don't think you're wrong about it being interesting to see what he would do with a bit of money to spend but at the the same time there's too many who remember the negative tactics against the so-called big teams and won't ever want to see him back. I personally would still rather see us try someone like Rudi Garcia or Diego Martinez with recent success under their belts, but again those appointments will never happen under the current board and ownership.
 

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