2024/25 Michael Keane

[pfim]

Really, really bad game - but its made worse by the fact that Ireogbunam is trying to do the same thing as him (jump out the midfield pivot, win the ball high up the pitch, force high turnovers). That's fine when it works - but when it doesn't, you get Brighton with the absolute freedom of Goodison to run at Keane and Tarkowski.

So much vitriol towards Keane, and broadly I thought he was okay on Saturday - but the midfield two left the two CBs badly, badly exposed yesterday (see the Welbeck goal, both CBs split trying to cover Welbeck and the wingers).

I'd feel better about Spurs if the lineup didn't include both Gana and Ireogbunam, put it that way

They do play similarly in terms of wanting to press high up the pitch. Gana as a defensive midfielder is a misnomer, he can tackle but often lacks the discipline to sit back and cover the CBs. I think that was one of the big improvements towards the end of last season, by and large he stopped trying to run around and win the ball and stuck to his position.

Just watching the 2nd goal again, Tarkowski points and tells Keane to take the wider player. Keane cuts that off, gets Welbeck on his left foot, and Tarkowski doesn't end up pressuring like he probably should. None of it happens without our most experienced midfielder coughing up the ball then standing his ground in the middle of the pitch. Keane didn't cause that, not by his play or by some fantasy thought that he makes all 10 players around him worse.

I don't want Keane playing, don't mistake me. But the few times we did progress up the pitch, it was his long diagonals and PSR Tim's willingness to carry the ball and look forward.

 

[Tilling]

They do play similarly in terms of wanting to press high up the pitch. Gana as a defensive midfielder is a misnomer, he can tackle but often lacks the discipline to sit back and cover the CBs. I think that was one of the big improvements towards the end of last season, by and large he stopped trying to run around and win the ball and stuck to his position.

Just watching the 2nd goal again, Tarkowski points and tells Keane to take the wider player. Keane cuts that off, gets Welbeck on his left foot, and Tarkowski doesn't end up pressuring like he probably should. None of it happens without our most experienced midfielder coughing up the ball then standing his ground in the middle of the pitch. Keane didn't cause that, not by his play or by some fantasy thought that he makes all 10 players around him worse.

I don't want Keane playing, don't mistake me. But the few times we did progress up the pitch, it was his long diagonals and PSR Tim's willingness to carry the ball and look forward.

Spot on re: the bolded. I'd go one step further and say I think Keane was the right call over O'Brien, should be eased in. I can see Keane RB (thinking of that Wolves away game in Dyches first six months) and O'Brien CB for the Spurs game though.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Im pretty sure there was a discussion on this around the time and over two periods of partnership coady and tarkowski conceded less than double that of keane tarkowski. Id have to double check that but im sure it was posted on here.
Keane creates uncertainty amongst others.
Its been done to death though on here. Keane plays last season and Everton are nowhere near that defensive record. True the final third never kept us up. The other end did. Put keane in there and that evaporates.
Saying that. Ashley young at home to brighton. Own goal last season. Red card this season.
There's a bigger liability.

Lampard tried to have us 'playing' more expansive, "braver on the ball" - it was a failing because we simply didn't have the team to do it. Thank god he saw sense and abandoned that.

A very defensive, low block Dyche helps all defenders. Look at Mykolenko. Look at the fee we paid for Keane from Dyche's Burnley.

But my point is, Keane is a problem but like Dyche, is a lightning rod. We lose at the weekend with Maldini in his pomp at centre half, and to prove it further - this was us going into Feb without him having 1 minute.

So I'm not arsed about Keane at the weekend. I knew he'd start.

I know Branthwaite will come in, and OBrien will.

I'm much more worried about whether NDiaye/Lindstrom can make the difference, because I know a front three of Doucoure, McNeil and Harrison behind Calvert-Lewin or Beto dictates high blood pressure until May.

 

[MikeH72]

Not one post in the Gana thread. Let's Mitoma make a 35 yard run through the center of the pitch on the first goal, then the obvious mistake on the second.

Keane shouldn't be playing, but it's very comfortable to keep blaming the same guys.

There was genuinely no alternative to Gana starting, there was one right there that should’ve played instead of Keane, that might have something to do with it.

 

[pfim]

There was genuinely no alternative to Gana starting, there was one right there that should’ve played instead of Keane, that might have something to do with it.

He'll be starting regardless. As he probably should at the moment. But if we're talking specifically about Saturday, he had much more to do with conceding the first two goals (with the obvious emphasis on the second) than anyone else.

 

[JLW]

Lampard tried to have us 'playing' more expansive, "braver on the ball" - it was a failing because we simply didn't have the team to do it. Thank god he saw sense and abandoned that.

A very defensive, low block Dyche helps all defenders. Look at Mykolenko. Look at the fee we paid for Keane from Dyche's Burnley.

But my point is, Keane is a problem but like Dyche, is a lightning rod. We lose at the weekend with Maldini in his pomp at centre half, and to prove it further - this was us going into Feb without him having 1 minute.

View attachment 269601

So I'm not arsed about Keane at the weekend. I knew he'd start.

I know Branthwaite will come in, and OBrien will.

I'm much more worried about whether NDiaye/Lindstrom can make the difference, because I know a front three of Doucoure, McNeil and Harrison behind Calvert-Lewin or Beto dictates high blood pressure until May.

How can these players make the difference when we dont or wont play to their strengths, they will literally feed of second ball scraps.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

There was genuinely no alternative to Gana starting, there was one right there that should’ve played instead of Keane, that might have something to do with it.

Drop Doucoure into CM, and have NDiaye, Lindstrom or McNeil behind Calvert-Lewin.

I'd never have Doucoure behind the striker. I understand why Dyche does it because he might think we need an outball because we've not got the progression/pace but for me, Doucoure in that 'number 10' an supporting striker role is a big problem.

[Edit] I'd even have Maupay there instead of Doucoure. Honestly.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

How can these players make the difference when we dont or wont play to their strengths, they will literally feed of second ball scraps.

Well, both of them failed miserably last season so let's see if they can find their feet here.

 

[JLW]

Well, both of them failed miserably last season so let's see if they can find their feet here.

Lets hope so but under this manager no, because there isnt a single player who has improved under him
Only when he gets fired as far away as possible will these players be able to flourish

 

[Gilbert..]

Lampard tried to have us 'playing' more expansive, "braver on the ball" - it was a failing because we simply didn't have the team to do it. Thank god he saw sense and abandoned that.

A very defensive, low block Dyche helps all defenders. Look at Mykolenko. Look at the fee we paid for Keane from Dyche's Burnley.

But my point is, Keane is a problem but like Dyche, is a lightning rod. We lose at the weekend with Maldini in his pomp at centre half, and to prove it further - this was us going into Feb without him having 1 minute.

View attachment 269601

So I'm not arsed about Keane at the weekend. I knew he'd start.

I know Branthwaite will come in, and OBrien will.

I'm much more worried about whether NDiaye/Lindstrom can make the difference, because I know a front three of Doucoure, McNeil and Harrison behind Calvert-Lewin or Beto dictates high blood pressure until May.

I was arsed he started tbh. He makes me nervous. I didnt get Dyches comments at all about he's had a really good pre season. We didnt actually have a good pre season. He was in the starting line up that shipped 3 at sligo rovers. He was in the starting line up that conceded 3 to coventry....
Dyche trying to justify keane was bizare.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Lets hope so but under this manager no, because there isnt a single player who has improved under him
Only when he gets fired as far away as possible will these players be able to flourish

I'd say Mykoleno/Doucoure/McNeil/Tarkowski.

 

[larbert toffee]

That wasn't my point though. Saturday's performance wasn't because Michael Keane played.

No not just him but we are a goal down as soon as he's named on the sheet.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I was arsed he started tbh. He makes me nervous. I didnt get Dyches comments at all about he's had a really good pre season. We didnt actually have a good pre season. He was in the starting line up that shipped 3 at sligo rovers. He was in the starting line up that conceded 3 to coventry....
Dyche trying to justify keane was bizare.

I knew he wouldn't lash OBrien in. For the same reason Ndiaye/Lindstrom wouldn't. I shared the 11 we'd go with, and knew he'd only have Tim in out of necessity because he'd stick with Doucoure.

Not sure why Dyche is like that but wonder whether it's the stock he places on pre-season and he rocked up later.

I hope it's not a case of cutting nose to spite face - it was credibility reported that OBrien was a recruitment signing.

 

[john jako]

I'd say Mykoleno/Doucoure/McNeil/Tarkowski.

I don’t agree with McNeil. I don’t think he’s improved one bit. He’s had periods of better form over very short periods but on the whole he’s been as crap as he was pre dyche.

 

[Houghty19]

Not one post in the Gana thread. Let's Mitoma make a 35 yard run through the center of the pitch on the first goal, then the obvious mistake on the second.

Keane shouldn't be playing, but it's very comfortable to keep blaming the same guys.

No problem with putting blame for certain mistakes in the game at ganas feet but i think with him he's got more leeway because people can see he's generally our best midfielder where with Keane nearly everybody can see he's one of the worst if not the worst defender we've got.