Agree he has been a touch erratic over the season season but thought McCarthy was excellent against Chelsea, full of energy and bite.
With the benefit of hindsight what would have been your starting lineup?
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With the benefit of hindsight what would have been your starting lineup?
mkrudden
Player Valuation: £40m
Oh no, I really like Besic. I also believe in patience with youth.
I also believe that Barry is absolutely integral to that side.
mkrudden
Player Valuation: £40m
Wrong starting 11.
With no Barry we needed to start 3-5-2 with Stones bringing the ball out and thus Elneny or Coq would have had to abandon their position on top of their CBs to meet him. That would have freed up Barkley a touch more.
Only my take on it. I'm no professional, FA Cup winning, record points totalling manager after all
I don't think it was wrong at all.
He made only the one change from a winning line up and it was as 'like for like' as it could have been.
It was our lack of pressure and intensity that did us today, and RM has to share the blame with the players.
I genuinely am starting to think he may have to go come summer.
Many people have been calling for Besic and McCarthy to start together.
They haven't ever started a game together before now so how that could be 'known before today' is ludicrous.
They looked good together vs W.Ham
II McColl II
Player Valuation: £6m
With what we had available then probably
Joel
Coleman - Jags - FM - Baines
McCarthy
Duelofeu - Barkley - Cleverley - Lennon
Lukaku
Coleman - Jags - FM - Baines
McCarthy
Duelofeu - Barkley - Cleverley - Lennon
Lukaku
Don't think it would have been possible to predict FM to have such an off game or for Barkley to go missing completely but given that if i had known with prior knowledge that Besic wasn't completely fit id have set us up with a flat 4 in front of McCarthy and played on the counter leaving little space for players like Ozil to work in pockets. Would have done the same job on Iwobi and Welbeck who initially were finding space everywhere. Leaves the option for Besic late in the 2nd half to kill off the game if we were winning/still in it instead of risking him from the start.
People see what they want to see, but Besic and McCarthy share the same strengths, high energy, good engines and agressive. Neither have the skills to dictate a game, Besic is stronger with the ball but hes not a controller of a game, Barry has developed that side of his game over many years and many positions played. I love Besic and McCarthy but as a pairing you need to compliment each other whether its harrass and sit or harrass and dictate, all having harrass and harrass does is leave gaps behind midfield and defence, its fundamentals of partnerships.
Think the point im trying to get at is in a Martinez style you need a dictator or play, you can both be strong defensively but unless you have a manager with the mindset of press and play direct it would be hard to match similar style players.
People see what they want to see, but Besic and McCarthy share the same strengths, high energy, good engines and agressive. Neither have the skills to dictate a game, Besic is stronger with the ball but hes not a controller of a game, Barry has developed that side of his game over many years and many positions played. I love Besic and McCarthy but as a pairing you need to compliment each other whether its harrass and sit or harrass and dictate, all having harrass and harrass does is leave gaps behind midfield and defence, its fundamentals of partnerships.
Think the point im trying to get at is in a Martinez style you need a dictator or play, you can both be strong defensively but unless you have a manager with the mindset of press and play direct it would be hard to match similar style players.
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According to Martinez's presser Besic was fully it though - suppose he might be lying or Besic could have caught the bug that knackered Barry/Clev/Oviedo in the past 24 hrs or he might have picked up an injury early on but sometimes players just have awful games. Just like sometimes you see them miss ever shot in warmup and then play a blinder.
Quite like your lineup in retrospect but as @neil999 said, if Martinez had gone with that there would have been mass fume.
II McColl II
Player Valuation: £6m
Which makes it even more baffling why he thought taking Besic off for stones when losing 2-0 is a positve tactical switch to get back in the game. I said it earlier in the martinez thread its like he works in reverse, winning comfortably just keep attacking regardless, losing with no attacking threat get more defenders on.
I was the same thinking that besic or mccarthy needed to come off at HT but at no point has 3 at the back worked for us so its worrying me that we have a wigan on our hands and he is becoming to stubborn to accept changes.
Tbh I though it was the right switch, thought it improved Coleman's threat significantly although not Baines as he looked pretty tired. Can understand there were probably a few other ways it could have been done it, personaliy would have liked to go to the three at the back but play two strikers, but at 2-0 and with even players like Lennon looking lethargic not sure any of them would have rescued the situation.
I like Mo but whether unfit/unwell his passing was miles off , but hardly the only one who looked clueless.
The Clev managed 90minutes of playing worse.
As I said not many come out of that with much credit, Colman about the only one imo.
deipnosophist
Player Valuation: £80m
...you omitted the 'relegation prone' bit...
Woolly Blue
Player Valuation: £80m
As others have said, he didn't look fit, but he had a 'mare first half and him being replaced by Stones was no great surprise.
Bags of talent though and he'll learn from the experience.
Bags of talent though and he'll learn from the experience.
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