Negative Moyes?

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GrandOldTeam

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"My first objective was making sure our points total would keep us in the Premier League," explained Moyes.


"Now I have to see if we can push on. The group of players are good enough to do so.

Am a big fan of Moyes, but am sick of his "survival first" attitude. Fair enough, if he wants to adapt an ultra-cautious approach then think it but dont say it.

Imagine being a football player, a foreign one and hearing that?, i'd translate that as the manager thinking "in my mind, I see us on a par with Fulham, Wigan and Charlton, as long as I stay in the Premiership, am happy."

Shows a complete lack of ambitition.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum Moyes.
 
wigan and charlton are distinct relegation candidates. prem survival means players get paid prem wages.

as for ambition, i wouldnt be happy if he came out and said we are going all out for fourth spot and the CL qualifiers. when it doesnt happen, it can drain confidence and leave the side feeling like losers. look at the hangover spurs have carried since the final day last season.

steady progress and cautious statements of intent will do for me.

on a related note, a lot of the chelsea players, essien recently, have stated they are going to win the CL, the prem the league cup and the FA cup.

i cant see it somehow.
 
There are arguments for and against coming out with statements like that.

For

He might privately think we have a good chance of being in the top half of the table and even Europe but would rather keep everybodys feet on the ground.

Imagine saying at the beginning of the season that Europe is a real prospect and then it all going wrong, he wouldn't hear the last of it, we would all be saying that he was full of hot air and that he's not the manager he thinks he is.

By saying survival is the first hurdle, then he gives the impression that he puts first and foremost Evertons premiership status above anything else, even his own standing amongst us fans, he's more or less saying " i want Everton to remain a premiership club, that is more important than qualifying for europe ", and lets be honest, it is.

We are not the richest club any more, apart from the "Big Four " spurs, villa, and even west ham seem to be ahead of us cash wise ( though who'd be a hammer right now ! ), Moyes' statement might just be his way of putting that fact across.

He's a down to earth Scotsman, not to mention a realistic one as well, be honest, prior to his arrival we were going nowhere fast, that statement of his is no big deal, he's young, he's learning all the time but more importantly he's been a success at Everton and it looks, hopefully, that we could have a succesfull end to this season as well in spite of what he said about survival being the first objective, he's just being guarded about our potential.

At the end of the day, i'd rather have a manager who said his first objective was keeping us in the prem than getting ahead of himself by coming out with
talk about europe before seeing how the season pans out, suspensions, illness and injuries can soon have you standing there with egg on your face, especially with a small squad like ours, he knows that and so wants to avoid that happening.

The most important fact i think about him coming out and talking like that is that even though he knows he has taken our club forward, we are still a long way from being where he wants us to be, and until that day arrives he is going to err on the side of caution.

Against

To some he comes across as pessimistic, they want to hear our manager talking about europe, to give us hope, talk the talk, walk the walk, we all desperatly want Everton to be up there with the best of them and return to the glory days of the 80's, we all want, no need and [Poor language removed] long with every sinew in our body to see our beautiful, glorious, and who have our in-grained love and devotion and who are best [Poor language removed] team in the world, match our dreams and beliefs.

I have no doubt whatsoever that day will come, but until we are in that position, and however much we all want to hear it, Moyes is going to keep his feet on the ground and his mouth shut.

We are lucky to have him as our manager.

COYB
 
I know what your saying Danny,

But just looking at our opponents tonight it can be dangerous making statements of intent. There fan base is seriously disgruntled that they are not vying for a champions leauge berth and Jol is under pressure big style from their support as they are not even in a Uefa Cup place at present.

Fact is they havn't qualified for the champions leauge in Donkey's while we have in the past three years. This is despite serious spends on their behalf that up untill now has only yeilded a Uefa Cup place.

So while we would all like to be titilated during the transfer window by courting the Zokoras, and Marlabranques of this world, in the hope that they will take us to a new level, the fact is we are better of than spurs both now and over the course of the last five years.

To take it back to point: how do you measure ambition, is it spending a yard of cash to jump two leauge places like spurs? or telling the world your going to win the world cup like keggan & erickson and countless failures of engalnd squads?.

I beleive ambition is having a goal of what you want to acheive, having a realistic apprasial of the means you are going to be presented with to acheive this over a specifctime frame, and devising of a plan, with confidence in your own ability to acheive this. I.e. The squad building of Ferguson at United and Wenger at Arsenal over the past two years!

So if this can be defined as ambition i believe Moyes and our develoment in the past three years have shown ambition in abundance and will continue to do so.

Additionly modern management requires a lot of interaction with the media. However these interviews generally reveal little of what a managers through intent is. They are more of an irratance to managers who have had to learn the skill of speaking alot witout really saying anything. They are usually soundbytes to fill meaningless headlines and web columns so i wouldnt get to emotional over what basicly is just a soundbyte
 
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Every manager has their handicaps, their Achilles heel if you like, and this is DM's. He has made more negative comments to press this term than ever before. His comments about the money spent by Spurs were totally uncalled for and I wish we had a press person, a Max Clifford type, to point him the right direction. DM is high on the list of good managers we have had but he does have his flaws. I think to be honest his attitude is dictated by the fact that he was a defender throughout his career, that approach influences his mind set.

I still support him wholeheartedly but he is not beyond criticism, no one is.:cool: :huh:
 

Every manager has their handicaps, their Achilles heel if you like, and this is DM's. He has made more negative comments to press this term than ever before. His comments about the money spent by Spurs were totally uncalled for and I wish we had a press person, a Max Clifford type, to point him the right direction. DM is high on the list of good managers we have had but he does have his flaws. I think to be honest his attitude is dictated by the fact that he was a defender throughout his career, that approach influences his mind set.

I still support him wholeheartedly but he is not beyond criticism, no one is.:cool: :huh:

After tonights game he does deserve criticism, his substitutions were poorly timed and lacked imagination.
 
well tonight will live long in the moyes arguemets. many who were on the fence will surely now like to see an attacking manger in charge of the blues. i can't believe i stayed up to watch us have 6(!) defenders on the pitch for the last push. flup sake.
 
yeah, have a go for whatever. but to "copy and paste all over threads" is a bit of a "no-mark" thing to do.

as if the "above quote" S are "something to be proud of"

still, this is my post, its not like im making allegations of hooliganism sympathisers, or kopite excuse makers, or trying to polarise a point of view (proud???)

still now, i wont be bullied into an action or apology by the clique/the mob/the self appointed morally high/the hooligan sympathisers/the covert kopites/the politically correct thugs.

common sense is quite the misnomer.
 

I'm really not too concerned with our manager at this point. I'm a bit more concerned about our current financial situation and lack of squad depth.

Hopefully Moyes will stick around awhile.
 
More negativity.

“I didn’t want to lose the game."

No [Poor language removed] sherlock, but maybe "i wanted to win the game" may breed abit more confidence?

"A draw wouldn’t have been the worst result."

No, but its not the best either, especially against a side who we beat 2-0 with 10 men at their ground and who are poor away, who only recorded their 2nd away win against us...

Part of being a manager is to breed confidence throughout the squad, years of comments like "surviving relegation is my first aim", "i just didnt want to lose", "a draw isnt a bad result"... then its no surprise you see backs up against the wall when we are drawing at home.

Its a criticism of Moyes, but theres people calling for his head. Definitely abit premature...
 
MF dideir zokora 8m
MF teemu tainio
MF jermain jenas 7m
MF danny murphy
MF hossam ghaly
MF steed malbranque
MF adel taarabt
MF tom huddlestone
MF aaron lennon

compare it with our midfield, compare our spending, compare our options.

spurs have underperformed this season, expect them to strengthen in the summer and push top 6 again next year.
 

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