New Everton Manager

[chazzle_dazzle]

Their career paths are not really that similar...

I actually agree with you but I did read this about old Mike recently;

"Due to his notable achievements at a relatively small club such as Norwich, Walker was felt by many commentators at this time to be one of the most promising new managers in English football, and he was praised for the positive, attack-minded passing game played by his Norwich side.

Walker quit Norwich in January 1994, to become manager of Everton, with Everton having to pay substantial compensation to Norwich to secure his services. Walker failed, however, to meet the high expectations of a bigger club."

If that was associated to Potter considering the clamour for him and the xG and all that I don't think people would put it too out of place.

 

[MartSlinger]

85 played, 22 wins, 29 draws, 34 losses and a 25.9% win ratio over the 2 years..... but he plays nice football and is a perfect fit for mid table Everton so lets get him hired.

Honestly, i will never understand some Evertonians. We have got to be aiming for a lot better than Graham Potter no matter how nice a guy he is.

Ancelotti had an unbelievable record prior to joining Everton, but look at how his spell here turned out?

Looking at it from that viewpoint is ridiculous.

 

[ToffeeTim]

I'm happy to give pretty much anyone a chance now. There is absolutely no manager out there who isn't a risk and no one can say there is a standout available candidate. There are lots of managers I have reservations over like Howe and Potter and I would definitely prefer we didn't re-hire anyone who has been here before (i.e. Martinez or Moyes). But at the end of the day I think we need to give whoever it is a chance to prove themselves.

I just want us to get on with it so we can move on all the players we don't want. Letting these players have another chance to let down another manager will be even worse than failing to hire the best manager. I'm not sure anyone in the world can fix us unto this squad is completely overhauled and we can't afford to waste another summer.

 

[Papa Shango]

I actually agree with you but I did read this about old Mike recently;

"Due to his notable achievements at a relatively small club such as Norwich, Walker was felt by many commentators at this time to be one of the most promising new managers in English football, and he was praised for the positive, attack-minded passing game played by his Norwich side.

Walker quit Norwich in January 1994, to become manager of Everton, with Everton having to pay substantial compensation to Norwich to secure his services. Walker failed, however, to meet the high expectations of a bigger club."

If that was associated to Potter considering the clamour for him and the xG and all that I don't think people would put it too out of place.

But there would be no mention of him taking a village club side up 4 divisions, winning cups and into Europe where they beat one of Europes biggest clubs? (Obviously Norwich beat Bayern but he didn't have the other stuff going on)

Honestly I think people think too much about win percentages and even relegations on a CV. Every job and circumstance is different, we have had top managers, we have had old school managers, we have tried up and coming ones and the results have been exactly the same. You would like to think we have some kind of interview process to try and find the right man who fits in to what we are aiming for, that could be anyone really.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Fergusons team.
He did win promotion with preston with his own team, quite an achievement in his 20 year career

Well it is Moyes' name that is carved onto the trophy.

 

[toffeeblue9]

I actually agree with you but I did read this about old Mike recently;

"Due to his notable achievements at a relatively small club such as Norwich, Walker was felt by many commentators at this time to be one of the most promising new managers in English football, and he was praised for the positive, attack-minded passing game played by his Norwich side.

Walker quit Norwich in January 1994, to become manager of Everton, with Everton having to pay substantial compensation to Norwich to secure his services. Walker failed, however, to meet the high expectations of a bigger club."

If that was associated to Potter considering the clamour for him and the xG and all that I don't think people would put it too out of place.

Doesn't really make for a relative comparison. Walker got the job because Norwich had built a good team and played decent footy. That's all the due dilligence Everton did. Had they dug a little further they'd have learned that it wasn't much to do with him and was more about the players Norwich had an the coaching set up. Many former players have since told stories about how Walker basically did nothing as Everton boss.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

I get the xG point you're making, but think of it as a reason to look at him a bit more. Nobody has ever been relegated with a boss xG to the best of my knowledge (only one I'm vaguely aware of would be WBA in 2018 where they finished bottom despite having an xG which would have had them 13th with a par performance).

Brighton's performance last season would have had them 5th by the same metric. It isn't a reason to appoint him, but it's an indicator that he may be doing something right and to take a closer look to see if the way he sets teams up etc may translate well with a better team. One point I'd make re Potter is despite the xG stuff, the thing I like about him is that he's demonstrated an ability to change the identity of a club whilst not suffering on the pitch (plenty of managers have tried to play nice football and got webbed because of it), Brighton's defensive record has improved under him even if you ignore the xG stuff. Everton are crying out for an identity.

I absolutely agree we are crying out for an identity, I said the other day the only time in the last 6 years I could remember an identity was under Martinez.

I just don't see it with Potter, but I might be wrong I would admit that. I get what you are saying but Brighton didn't finish 5th, so its impossible to say he is great if they finished 5th I might sit up and take notice. They didn't though.

I get the xG stuff, however to me it is a bit fictional, no-one will look at the league table and go, "ooooh Brighton finished 5th on xG" They finished 16th. xG might be down to look or crap finishing, its not exactly things we are blessed with at Everton - I want something more tangible then xG. Thats just me though I get people who base the ideology on statistics, but 5th on xG or 16th in the league I know which one I will look at.

I don't watch enough of Brighton to have much more of a rounded view on their play, but I just think he isn't ready for a club like ours right now.

 

[Papa Shango]

I would do anything to get Thomas Frank or Bielsa. We need a football professor who wont let our players get away with murder.

Frank is good but give it a year or two and everyone will be calling him crap because he cant get Brentford into Europe or whatever.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Doesn't really make for a relative comparison. Walker got the job because Norwich had built a good team and played decent footy. That's all the due dilligence Everton did. Had they dug a little further they'd have learned that it wasn't much to do with him and was more about the players Norwich had an the coaching set up. Many former players have since told stories about how Walker basically did nothing as Everton boss.

Yeah I get that, I was just making the comparison - up and coming British manager, at a club with much less expectation then ours.

Imo, Potter might be good, I don't know, but he isn't ready for our club and expectations I feel.

 

[MartSlinger]

Yeah I get that, I was just making the comparison - up and coming British manager, at a club with much less expectation then ours.

Imo, Potter might be good, I don't know, but he isn't ready for our club and expectations I feel.

Thats the problem right there. One of the biggest issues.

There should be NO Expectations, we've achieved the square root of ZILCH in 26yrs. Why is there expectations? There shouldnt be any.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

But there would be no mention of him taking a village club side up 4 divisions, winning cups and into Europe where they beat one of Europes biggest clubs? (Obviously Norwich beat Bayern but he didn't have the other stuff going on)

Honestly I think people think too much about win percentages and even relegations on a CV. Every job and circumstance is different, we have had top managers, we have had old school managers, we have tried up and coming ones and the results have been exactly the same. You would like to think we have some kind of interview process to try and find the right man who fits in to what we are aiming for, that could be anyone really.

That last bit is the key for me mate, if there is a proper interview process and part of that is to get the right manager to give us an identity and do something pushing forward. then I am good with that, and even if I don't want the manager I would accept it because its been conducted the right way for the club.

Not just some lovey dovey appointment or some Hollywood manager for the sake of it.

Its time those two routes where ripped up and we done it properly and looked away from the beaten path.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Thats the problem right there. One of the biggest issues.

There should be NO Expectations, we've achieved the square root of ZILCH in 26yrs. Why is there expectations? There shouldnt be any.

There shouldn't be, we aren't exactly a screaming model of success at the moment.

Everton has expectations though, that won't change imo.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Well it is Moyes' name that is carved onto the trophy.

I doubt even he claims it.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

The one thing I remember about when Moyes was in charge was not enjoying going to games the majority of the time.

 

[Kurt.]

Love this mad thread ….. painters and decorators from St. Helens discussing in depth the virtues of XG and odd determined metrics …. Koff lad and eat your paste sandwiches ffs