New Everton Stadium Discussion

[ashwuk76]

The final resident in Gwladys Street would say he was hounded out. He was the last resident on that side for years. Those houses were less than 50yrs old and in as good condition as those opposite.... which are still standing 80yrs later. LFC bought up the majority of the surrounding properties over a number of decades and used CPO's for the rest. Far larger clearances have been carried out in the city (my familiy being displaced on a few occasions), some very recently. The big difference nowadays is that the powers of CPO are probably even stronger. The only ones "harping on" are those desperate to seize a false moral high ground, who either didn't realise we had done the same or somehow think that when we did it, it somehow didn't count.... "remembering kemlyn Rd Ladies", while conveniently forgetting the Park end families is hypocritical nonsense.

So in essence you don't actually know you are just speculating...

Whereas we know the despicable lengths LFC went to in order to clear the area.

Whilst I am not saying I agree we how we treated the hold out resident, although as you admit that's mere speculation, it would seem what LFC have done is far worse.

You keep harping on about historical things yet somehow still won't admit times have changed and what LFC have done is worse considering todays modern sensibilities.

 

[ForeverEverton]

 

[Tom Hughes]

So in essence you don't actually know you are just speculating...

Whereas we know the despicable lengths LFC went to in order to clear the area.

Whilst I am not saying I agree we how we treated the hold out resident, although as you admit that's mere speculation, it would seem what LFC have done is far worse.

You keep harping on about historical things yet somehow still won't admit times have changed and what LFC have done is worse considering todays modern sensibilities.

I don't speculate or speak for the sake of it.... I'd heard of it years ago and even knew someone who worked on the Gwladys St rebuild..... I lived through the Park end rebuild and don't remember a single protest of any sort by any Evertonian (or Liverpudlian). See the article below:

The obstacle which blocked the Gwladys Street End for 23 years

Everton's famous home end is in its 80th year as a double decker stand

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

The fella was pressurised for over 2 decades until all his neighbours had been displaced, demolishing everything up to his home.... all in an era when it could be far more difficult for football clubs to get their way. With houses that were at that time comparatively new.

We did the same again in the 90's, to the residents of the Park end in Goodison Avenue, Walton Lane and Goodison Rd.... this was after the Kemlyn Rd ladies and "sensibilities" were just the same throughout, but for some reason we wash over this? The only difference is that this is LFC, and we've little else to try to beat them with, so some jump on it in either blind ignorance or intentional hypocracy. Neither of which reflects well on us.

The fact is, a far greater number of houses have been knocked down in Edge Lane, Kensington and Smithdown areas in exactly the same time frame by the same CPO process. So your "modern sensibilities" argument is grasping at staws and similarly nonsensical. When big business or local/national authorities ear-mark areas for redevelopment, then unless those areas/properties are of special value/importance, then these developments take precedence. They certainly don't always get it right (and some have been disasters), but that's generally how cities evolve and grow.

I'm not saying I agree whole heartedly with what they've done, but I'm also not obsessed enough with them to hypocritically condemn them for doing exactly what we have done in the past, and what authorities and developers have always done in the name of progress. As I said, to do so (unless you were a displaced resident or property owner) is pretty small-time and more than smacks of desperation.

 

[TonyT65]

Now I don't know for sure, but I was under the impression the club owned the houses behind the old Park End. In fact I remember being told that club players actually lived in them back in the day.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Now I don't know for sure, but I was under the impression the club owned the houses behind the old Park End. In fact I remember being told that club players actually lived in them back in the day.

Yes, I'm not sure that they owned all of them, but they learned the lesson of the problems at the other end and bought many properties around the ground. It took them over another 25yrs after redeveloping the Gwladys Street to acquire enough properties and straighten out the back of the 1906 park end stand in the mid-60s. Before that there was v-shaped cut-out of the backwall of this stand.

 

[davek]

Re the clearance of houses around Anfield / Goodison: we cant take what happens around one stadium and balance it out with what happens around another, trading them off. It's just not as black and white as that.

All redevelopments have their own dynamic and forces. I cant remember a co-ordinated attempt in the mid-90s by those people in the houses where the Park End extended into to stop the club and city council doing what they were setting out to do. By contrast, I can easily remember - like all of us - the protests in Anfield by community groups who fought tooth and nail to protect their neighbourhood from LFC / LCC and their plans to extend the Anfield footprint massively. I think there's a difference in volume in each case that dictated those differences (almost 300 houses in Anfield), and that produced a difference in terms of level of protest. The Anfield Residents had been duped for years by LFC and LCC who;d set out secret plans to degrade the area to make it easier for the club to launch their far reaching plans. Maybe Spirit of Shankly latterly paid some attention to it (though it looks to me more lip service tacked onto their main gripe of seeing more expensive match day tickets in a redevelopment), but the reaction was muted from fans. I'd like to believe that (as with Kirkby when Everton fans certainly did hand support to community action groups there looking to keep Everton and KBC from smashing their community) if there'd have been a similar reaction over the Park End levelling then fans would have made themselves heard.

The clubs are both run by rapacious business people, so there's no game of one-upmanship being played when seeing what happened in Anfield and calling it out. No hypocrisy.

 

[maccavennie]

Yes, I'm not sure that they owned all of them, but they learned the lesson of the problems at the other end and bought many properties around the ground. It took them over another 25yrs after redeveloping the Gwladys Street to acquire enough properties and straighten out the back of the 1906 park end stand in the mid-60s. Before that there was v-shaped cut-out of the backwall of this stand.

You mentioned the bulk of the houses were knocked down in the 90's for the rebuild of the Park End.

I'd have to do a little digging but I'm sure those houses were all purchased and owned by Everton. I certainly remember being told this at the time we were doing the work. Not 100% though so will see if I can find out.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Re the clearance of houses around Anfield / Goodison: we cant take what happens around one stadium and balance it out with what happens around another, trading them off. It's just not as black and white as that.

All redevelopments have their own dynamic and forces. I cant remember a co-ordinated attempt in the mid-90s by those people in the houses where the Park End extended into to stop the club and city council doing what they were setting out to do. By contrast, I can easily remember - like all of us - the protests in Anfield by community groups who fought tooth and nail to protect their neighbourhood from LFC / LCC and their plans to extend the Anfield footprint massively. I think there's a difference in volume in each case that dictated those differences (almost 300 houses in Anfield), and that produced a difference in terms of level of protest. The Anfield Residents had been duped for years by LFC and LCC who;d set out secret plans to degrade the area to make it easier for the club to launch their far reaching plans. Maybe Spirit of Shankly latterly paid some attention to it (though it looks to me more lip service tacked onto their main gripe of seeing more expensive match day tickets in a redevelopment), but the reaction was muted from fans. I'd like to believe that (as with Kirkby when Everton fans certainly did hand support to community action groups there looking to keep Everton and KBC from smashing their community) if there'd have been a similar reaction over the Park End levelling then fans would have made themselves heard.

The clubs are both run by rapacious business people, so there's no game of one-upmanship being played when seeing what happened in Anfield and calling it out. No hypocrisy.

Now it's a matter of volume and not sensibilities? You can't say it's wrong for one but ignore the other. A murderer is no less of a murderer because he's not Harold Shipman. That is literally conflation, double-standards and hypocracy by definition.

LFC and EFC, bought up the houses with a view to expansion if future demand and finances dictated. People who moved into those streets knew that could always happen, no doubt so did some opportunist landlords and property developers. When that time came, they exercised that right demolishing those they owned (the majority) and CPO'd the rest. If you want to talk about volumes just look at how many houses were knocked down in the same district on the the other side of Walton Breck Rd... dozens of streets worth. This was far smaller scale to the clearances that cleared whole areas nearby and in other parts of Liverpool.

No-one on here batted an eye-lid when we did it..... and the only argument for most at that time was that it should've been bigger and done much sooner.

 

[Dr Baxter]

Just to get things back on topic, isn't it good that we have acquired a site which is twice the size as Goodison. With a bit of luck, safe standing should increase capacity by several thousand meaning we'll never have to worry about knocking down houses ever again. Can't wait to see the steelwork going up next year.

 

[PhilM]

You mentioned the bulk of the houses were knocked down in the 90's for the rebuild of the Park End.

I'd have to do a little digging but I'm sure those houses were all purchased and owned by Everton. I certainly remember being told this at the time we were doing the work. Not 100% though so will see if I can find out.

From recollection alone, I believe we'd owned the houses behind the Park End for a long period - at least the 60s - as they were staff houses.

 

[Toffeelover]

Now it's a matter of volume and not sensibilities? You can't say it's wrong for one but ignore the other. A murderer is no less of a murderer because he's not Harold Shipman. That is literally conflation, double-standards and hypocracy by definition.

LFC and EFC, bought up the houses with a view to expansion if future demand and finances dictated. People who moved into those streets knew that could always happen, no doubt so did some opportunist landlords and property developers. When that time came, they exercised that right demolishing those they owned (the majority) and CPO'd the rest. If you want to talk about volumes just look at how many houses were knocked down in the same district on the the other side of Walton Breck Rd... dozens of streets worth. This was far smaller scale to the clearances that cleared whole areas nearby and in other parts of Liverpool.

No-one on here batted an eye-lid when we did it..... and the only argument for most at that time was that it should've been bigger and done much sooner.

What is the point now arguing over the expansions of both grounds, it is now a matter of history and that cannot be changed. However LFC's expansion of Anfield Road end is now and not history. It is upto the residents of the area to attack the PP given by the council, wonder how they voted in the council elections?

 

[tmgc]

Shoalway is moving again.

 

[maccavennie]

From recollection alone, I believe we'd owned the houses behind the Park End for a long period - at least the 60s - as they were staff houses.

That was my take on it as well Phil.

 

[arch stanton]

Shoalway is moving again.

Perfectly teeing up a Rondon joke...

 

[ForeverEverton]

Where is our webcam Chong????

#ChongOut ?