New Everton Stadium

[Librarian]

Would love to see ground-breaking stadium architecture rather than another cereal bowl

The IKEA Flat Pack Arena will be a monument to modern Swedish architecture

 

[radiostar]

It is essentially landlocked. If it were to happen could take up to 2 seasons so where would we play, Anfield?

I suppose there's no where else nearby that's big enough.

It still wouldn't be Goodison though mate, which has always been my argument against the sentimentality of staying at the same location.

Yeah I agree to a point mate. Just think that small space is where most of everyone's greatest memories were made. I'd hate to see a housing estate or something there.

 

[Toffeelover]

I understand just to please Bill a new boys pen will be in the plans.

 

[toffee66]

Excellent, what is your view on my suggestion that we would be classed as high risk to banks and lenders. To sort a recent dispute on here.

Also, your take on the Vibrac loans would be good as well.

Our credit risk is improving but we will still be seen as risky until we improve cash flow. The vibrac loans are not unusual but they are needed because we rely on TV money and match day which dry up in summer. If we can boost commercial revenues we deal with the credit risk and cash flow issues. A new stadium is not a panacea but it should help. Pushing this as a regeneration scheme may mean LCC can help us access lower cost funding than we can alone but at this stage that is just a hope not a fact.

 

[Toffeelover]

Our credit risk is improving but we will still be seen as risky until we improve cash flow. The vibrac loans are not unusual but they are needed because we rely on TV money and match day which dry up in summer. If we can boost commercial revenues we deal with the credit risk and cash flow issues. A new stadium is not a panacea but it should help. Pushing this as a regeneration scheme may mean LCC can help us access lower cost funding than we can alone but at this stage that is just a hope not a fact.

A new stadium could set the club up for the next 50 years don't think GP could do that.

 

[Steve0]

I was there at the enquiry mate, These are the quotes from the enquiry

“But it's confirmed in a letter from Deloitte, Dan Jones stated from our work with the club to date on its business plan we understand the annual potential business to the club of the new stadium is of the order of £6M” “Robert Elstone replied “That's profit not revenue”
“And just to confirm” Colin asked, “this figure is based on a target of 47,000?” “Yes” was Robert Elstone's reply.

Fair enough but that might just be down to the prudence concept.

 

[Toffeelover]

As for the Arabs buying City, they did not have to build a stadium but twist a few arms and they got one already built just a few alterations and pay a silly low rent.

 

[Moomin]

Our credit risk is improving but we will still be seen as risky until we improve cash flow. The vibrac loans are not unusual but they are needed because we rely on TV money and match day which dry up in summer. If we can boost commercial revenues we deal with the credit risk and cash flow issues. A new stadium is not a panacea but it should help. Pushing this as a regeneration scheme may mean LCC can help us access lower cost funding than we can alone but at this stage that is just a hope not a fact.

Thank you for the response, I understand that we have bridging loans due to cashflow. But, using Vibrac at a higher rate of interest then our usual creditors seems strange or desperate to me.

Would using a loan from Cayman or BVI have a tax arrangement advantage??

 

[roydo]

Our credit risk is improving but we will still be seen as risky until we improve cash flow. The vibrac loans are not unusual but they are needed because we rely on TV money and match day which dry up in summer. If we can boost commercial revenues we deal with the credit risk and cash flow issues. A new stadium is not a panacea but it should help. Pushing this as a regeneration scheme may mean LCC can help us access lower cost funding than we can alone but at this stage that is just a hope not a fact.

That, credit risk, assumes we are taking on outside funding, ie, from banks. As opposed to a mix of self funding and 3rd parties. LCC for one maybe.

 

[Moomin]

I agree,
If it had of been in a prime location(closer to town) then I could half understand it.

Did Elstone at the enquiry under oath say Everton was not for sale??

 

[toffee66]

LCC cannot fund us directly but partnership with them may open new doors. However, credit risk is based on track record to date and lender's cautious assessment of future prospects. They don't deal in maybes.

Still, it is improving and should improve more as agencies see the impact of the new TV deal on actual cash flow and debt rather than just forecasts. We still aren't ideally placed to fund a stadium but we are better placed than we were when.

Kirkby was desperation. WHP could become inspiration. COULD. Caution is the only sane response to EFC stadium projects!

 

[Steve0]

The Deloitte figures are a bit out of date as based on older prices but they provide a fair benchmark.

You can work out roughly from prior year match day revenue, season ticket sales and quoted attendances how much we take per game for different groups of ticket e.g. Full price/early bird/ discounted adult season and single ticket, junior equivalents etc. Considerably more than half our ticket sales are at a substantial (20% minimum and for juniors/infants far more) discount to a single adult ticket price. I estimate this season our average per match take per fan will be nearer £25 than £30 including retail profits.

If you extrapolate this then a 7000-8000 attendance increase adds about £6m to revenue if you assume a significant proportion of increase is from boxes, exec/lounge seats etc. and a "fair pricing" policy to avoid price increases and maintain or even extend discounted options. Effectively the average take per new seat is assumed to be £40 factoring this all in.

Several PL teams in London significantly exceed £50 per fan meaning a 40k crowd for them would require us to sell >70k to match the revenue even in a new stadium assuming we get towards £30 per fan average.

The direct benefit of 10k extra capacity is marginal at best for us and still leaves us massively disadvantaged vs. London clubs and our Northern rivals with massive global fan bases and fly-in fans. If we are lucky we cover increased costs and interest/debt repayments with direct match day revenue.

So, this has to work on a second level by improving overall perception and visibility of the club to boost attractiveness to commercial partners and generate indirect revenue benefits. It does eliminate a key negative for a potential buyer/investor (it does not create a real positive differentiator unless it draws in hordes of new, largely overseas fans, by coinciding with playing success).

We do need better facilities and increased capacity but we must be realistic about the benefits.

(Before anyone asks, yes I am a qualified accountant and business executive so sorry about the numbers and realism!)

On the average price per ticket.

We made 17 million from gate receipts from our latest accounts. We had an average of around 37,000. WE had 22 home games.

17,000,000/22 = 772,000 per game.

772,000/ 36,300 = a shade over £21 per ticket including programmes and and drink etc. Which is less than I at first supposed. One of them was a league cup game where both prices and attendance were lower than average but for simplicity's sake i haven't adjusted the figure. Not sure the difference would be material.

Working on the basis that 21 home games is the bare minimum we can expect, especially as we should be qualifying for Europe on a regular basis, the increased corporate tickets, better conference facilities, naming rights and increased ticket prices we should easily cover the interest and a bit more on top.

 

[Barrowjohn]

Friends arena Stockholm looks amazing. 50 000 capacity. Anyone been?

 

[Azza]

Thank you for the response, I understand that we have bridging loans due to cashflow. But, using Vibrac at a higher rate of interest then our usual creditors seems strange or desperate to me.

Would using a loan from Cayman or BVI have a tax arrangement advantage??

Kenwright ---> Phillip Green ---> Chris Samuelson ---> Samuelson's mate / Vibrac (or even Samuelson himself) ---> Kenwright


Non of the main lenders would loan us. Okay rate, money instantly no questions asked, Elstone & Kenwright are not bothered.

 

[radiostar]

Would we be happy with naming rights?