New Everton Stadium

[Big Neville Southall]

I couldn't disagree more. I think it's important to have one big home end, rather than two identical ends.

People reference Dortmund's stadium a lot. That's their model. One big home end and a second two-tiered end with a lower capacity. A steep 2 tier end of 10,500 would not look small.

It's about being the best, and designing the best. That is paramount to everything. Quality is first over how fans perceives it to look. Dortmund's end is referenced as being the best end around for generating an atmosphere because there's no division of fans meaning the atmosphere spreads as quick as poss, add in as well the number of fans in there it will be Louis load as can be. Add in that the atmosphere is also best when the team attacks the end your in, then two as there's two halves you need the best design for both halves.

Uniqueness, iconic and aesthetics does not necessarily mean quality. Design the best scientifically, and then add your iconic and distinctive features, but don't compromise getting any features for quality.

 

[jonnyboy316]

Hopefully, though it's crossed my mind that it may two tiered with a small power and a large upper, I'm sure there was a stand like that in Euro 2000. Thing is it may sound good but you don't get standing in upper tiers especially steep ones a as its unsafe.

Regardless, whatever he deems as the best type of End Stand, why is he not doing that design for both Ends?? It's admitting there and then that one End is inferior? So the stadium is not the best it can be is it? Its for life this stadium and my kids lives.

Is the Inferior End the CWG compromise? Getting the Ends right is the most important thing for the atmosphere, not the track, steepness, or whether or not its an an extra metre or two closer to the pitch, the End Stands generate the atmosphere. Our fans should be fuming over this.

I don't like it when a stadium is perfectly symmetrical. Best to have 1 large home end for the hardcore support. The away fans can go in the small CWG end which will be further from the touch line

 

[peteblue]

I don't like it when a stadium is perfectly symmetrical. Best to have 1 large home end for the hardcore support. The away fans can go in the small CWG end which will be further from the touch line

Yeah, we need a Rhomboid.......proper cutting edge....

 

[Huyton Layne]

Any asked Meis about a hot tub? It'll eat space for seating but I think it's a must for any serious club looking to show we have more money than sense.

 

[BNJ1878]

Aren't these images doing the rounds jarg?

I believe it depends on which ones you're talking about. There's some from a design forum's competition to try to design a stadium to the expected BMD brief, but there's also images from a booklet that is believed to be genuine. So genuine they put in a copyright request for them to be taken down.

The company that produced the documents do engineering studies for particular projects at particular sites.

What do you want to build? Is it feasible? What's the best way to do it? Etc.

They are not architects.

I think someone asked Meis if they were sketches of our stadium and he said "not those ones" but didn't comment when asked if they were working alongside that company.

If you look on their website they mention Kirkby as a past project.

 

[Big Neville Southall]

I don't like it when a stadium is perfectly symmetrical. Best to have 1 large home end for the hardcore support. The away fans can go in the small CWG end which will be further from the touch line

Liking or not liking symmetry is aesthetics, it's subjective. Also symmetry for having the same ends would also assume that both sides are the same?

I could say I like symmetry so let's have it, but it's a debate that goes nowhere. I'm talking about quality first, a design that works the best.

A stadium that may look good to someone but that does not in anyway mean that it is good.

Design quality first, then sort the visuals out. We can't have an inferior end that doesn't maximise the atmosphere because fan x y z, thought it didn't look good.

Your End Sands generate the atmosphere. They have to be done right. When the team attacks the end your fans are in that's when you get the best atmosphere generated. You have two halves to a match, get the best home advantage we can.

 

[Big Neville Southall]

Is this site big enough to build a quality stadium? Are we shoved in the corner to get the most retail space elsewhere?

Never mind a week of athletics sacrificing our design forever, is having the prawn sandwich shop meaning we have 1 and a half ends and no chance of expansion?

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Is this site big enough to build a quality stadium? Are we shoved in the corner to get the most retail space elsewhere?

Never mind a week of athletics sacrificing our design forever, is having the prawn sandwich shop meaning we have 1 and a half ends and no chance of expansion?

Just wait until you see the actual plans? No one has ever mentioned that there is no chance of expansion, we haven't even built the stadium yet!

 

[Big Neville Southall]

Just wait until you see the actual plans? No one has ever mentioned that there is no chance of expansion, we haven't even built the stadium yet!

One danger is that once the plans are done, they're not going to change it are they?

If we want something then we have to push the club and ask for it before the plans are completed, do bits of digging yourself, and get some sort of response from the club to know it's took care of.

The club have said nothing about expansion. You don't expect figures or plans at this stage, but we should have some sort of acknowledgement.

 

[Titus Bramble]

One danger is that once the plans are done, they're not going to change it are they?

If we want something then we have to push the club and ask for it before the plans are completed, do bits of digging yourself, and get some sort of response from the club to know it's took care of.

The club have said nothing about expansion. You don't expect figures or plans at this stage, but we should have some sort of acknowledgement.

Spurs' plans changed after they'd started building

Let's worry about what we are/aren't getting once we know for sure

 

[toffeejack]

In my humble opinion I think the other chap is right. That diagram just shows the movement of people at particular points, if you look at the yellow dotted circles I believe it is how many people are expected to be passing through those areas to be able to work out how wide the exit/entry concourses should be. So the 2 end figures include half of the stand that runs the length of the pitch. (Minus 2 odd thousand that exit via the riverside car park) However they only include half the capacity of each end. (Basically all the areas shaded in red/blue)

Although that would mean if that document has any truth to it the large goal end would be around 14k bigger than the other end. From the picture that could not be the case but the actual layout may differ to that as it could just be a template stadium.

Everyone is forced to come out onto the fanzone plaza (bar the premium seated people who leave by car) meaning the best part of 58k making their way out at that point marked with a yellow circle. Then everyone moves either north or south when out into Regent Road as indicated by the 60K N/S & A & B circles.

View attachment 38606

That's how I interpret it anyhow.

yeah, so that blue arrow towards the parking area for premium spectators, would be how they leave the stadium? When i saw it it made me think, imagine if they could look that way too? All the corporate boxes (is this what they mean by premium spectators?) are glassed windows both ways, so they can look onto the pitch, or behind them be able to overlook the docks. Think that would be very very nice as a location for meetings etc. As long as i don't get invited up there because 1) i wouldn't look away from the match anyway and 2) my attention span is terrible and my eye would catch anything that's moving outside.

Not sure if any other club has corporate boxes like that, or whether it's even feasible?

 

[Jacko93]

The company that produced the documents do engineering studies for particular projects at particular sites.

What do you want to build? Is it feasible? What's the best way to do it? Etc.

They are not architects.

I think someone asked Meis if they were sketches of our stadium and he said "not those ones" but didn't comment when asked if they were working alongside that company.

If you look on their website they mention Kirkby as a past project.

They are Civil, Structural and MEP consultants. Depending on the procurement route of the project they will take the project to Stage 3 to produce the tender documents so the the major contractors can bid for the work. They may then be novated to work on behalf of the contractor to produce the Stage 3b works. sSage 3c and 4 onwards the contractor produces the construction documents and essentially completes the build.

They are responsible for making the Architects ideas work,. Many of the engineering solutions on a project will be designed by the respective consultants not always the Architect. This is why I pay very little attention to all these architects that say expanding Goodison was a real possibility, I would never of believed it until I saw if from a structural engineer.

Buro Happold are a very accomplished company, and very very capable. Top 20 in world engineering.

 

[Jacko93]

Spurs' plans changed after they'd started building

Let's worry about what we are/aren't getting once we know for sure

That's why their costs sky rocketed as well. Anybody that's procuring a building should have a solid brief, nad need very good reason for shifting from that.

Spurs for e.g after their initial design decided to bring in NFL to raise some more money. Sounds like a great idea (and it is) but that had effect beyond what they first expected. The changing rooms for god knows how many AF players need to be much bigger than for the EPL players. Leads to a more expansive fit out, bigger heat generation and domestic plant, that increase plant space required, that's without even considering the re-engineering required and the cost of that. Sounds like very small changes, but they snowball. You want to start with a strong brief and maximise it.

 

[The binman chronicles]

yeah, so that blue arrow towards the parking area for premium spectators, would be how they leave the stadium? When i saw it it made me think, imagine if they could look that way too? All the corporate boxes (is this what they mean by premium spectators?) are glassed windows both ways, so they can look onto the pitch, or behind them be able to overlook the docks. Think that would be very very nice as a location for meetings etc. As long as i don't get invited up there because 1) i wouldn't look away from the match anyway and 2) my attention span is terrible and my eye would catch anything that's moving outside.

Not sure if any other club has corporate boxes like that, or whether it's even feasible?

I doubt it would be possible to have 'two way' views just because that would make the stadium very narrow, generally you would need access into the boxes from the rear to bring in food/drink plus be able to evacuate in an emergency. However i would guess they would have access to bars/resturants that will have views over the Mersey and maybe at a concourse level too so when they are going to their seats/boxes they will see it.

 

[RobSpurs]

Spurs' plans changed after they'd started building

That's why their costs sky rocketed as well. Anybody that's procuring a building should have a solid brief, and need very good reason for shifting from that.

No, our plans didn't change after we'd started building. Costs went up because we chose to pursue a more expensive scheme, not because we changed our minds halfway through building something else!

The old plans were scrapped entirely, and in 2015 planning permission was sought for the current scheme (designed by a completely different architect). It was gained pretty quickly because there was already planning permission for a big new stadium on that site. Only after planning permission was gained for the entirety of the new scheme did building work begin. We didn't change to the new NFL-capable stadium during the build, and the brief was solid before building work began, but it was a brief for a higher-spec, more expensive stadium than the old one revealed in 2008.*

So back to this thread - unless the club and/or the planning committee feel like they've really got something major wrong or the scheme as revealed suddenly becomes unviable, there are unlikely to be big changes between what's revealed and what's built. Especially if the timelines are tight and there's a need to get this stadium done for 2022. The only exception I can think would be if there are two distinct sets of plans, one dependent on the Commonwealth Games and the other not.

* There have been two minor changes since the building work started - the design of the West entrance has become more curved after the planning committee raised concerns about its aesthetics, and there's been a minor tweak to the internal seating layout. But nothing major.