New Everton Stadium

[toffee66]

its written by people wanting you to believe that everything is progressing.

its just smoke screens..

There are lots of valid questions and criticisms about the club. Whether we are actually progressing as a squad/team is by no means clear and there are lots of valid criticisms of the board. Few if any would argue that we are run well commercially, getting it right in terms of manager/DoF or that we have handled the last 3 transfer windows well. Kenwright and Elstone are still there. Walsh is not inspiring anyone. Loads to validly have a pop at.

The stadium is very much wait and see. I'd argue that the initial timeline, driven by the Commonwealth Games bid, was always massively unrealistic. In fact if we actually get in to a new stadium by 2023/24 (one year later than the 'delayed' date from Elstone) we are on roughly the same timeline as Arsenal and Spurs from initial vision to completion. We are still a long way away from having funding in place, planning approved and building underway. Given the previous failures it isn't unreasonable to be sceptical but it is unfair to focus only on the negatives without also acknowledging actual progress (e.g. purchase of 200 year lease on site, the one solid fact in the whole story). Personally I'm 'believe it when I see it' but some people I know and trust who are usually hugely cynical are far more optimistic on this than I have ever seen them. The bottom line is none of us truly know and we'd all be well advised to wait for more facts to emerge rather than passing off opinion and speculation as fact.

On Finances the FACTS (not opinions, actual published and audited data) shows clearly that Moshiri (or some mystery figure behind Moshiri) has funded huge transfer activity and the BMD land purchase. Trying to deny it is or claim it all TV money just doesn't wash as I detailed above. It is like claiming the earth is flat. It is an opinion you can hold. It has no merit.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I agree with your conclusion, but you basically contradict yourself in that post.

Chelsea and City were taken over with a view to making them dominant forces in domestic and European football, but as you say yourself, that doesn't seem to be the case with our takeover. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm not complaining, but it makes the point you're trying to refute correct. The situations are completely different, so trying to compare simply doesn't work.

Surely that should be directed to the person who made the point to start with?

I basically am saying it's pointless to compare and most people didn't think we were going to turn into Chelsea or City...but my point is even if we did City took 3 years to build up despite having a stadium and the previous owner spent quite a bit and Chelsea had already had quite a successful period leading up to be taken over. So 2 years in with a part owner who is not as wealthy as the aforementioned it is hardly a surprise where we are at.

 

[davek]

Surely that should be directed to the person who made the point to start with?

I basically am saying it's pointless to compare and most people didn't think we were going to turn into Chelsea or City...but my point is even if we did City took 3 years to build up despite having a stadium and the previous owner spent quite a bit and Chelsea had already had quite a successful period leading up to be taken over. So 2 years in with a part owner who is not as wealthy as the aforementioned it is hardly a surprise where we are at.

...most people didn't think we'd turn into Southampton or Watford either.

 

[Lanolin]

Surely that should be directed to the person who made the point to start with?

I basically am saying it's pointless to compare and most people didn't think we were going to turn into Chelsea or City...but my point is even if we did City took 3 years to build up despite having a stadium and the previous owner spent quite a bit and Chelsea had already had quite a successful period leading up to be taken over. So 2 years in with a part owner who is not as wealthy as the aforementioned it is hardly a surprise where we are at.

No it's directed at you because the original post was someone effectively saying 'I think it's clear that this takeover is not the same as theirs', and you responing along the lines of 'You're being harsh and making things suit your argument' before going on to say that actually you agree and this takeover is not like theirs.

I don't think there's any point in saying City didn't win a trophy for three years so just wait and see because I agree with you that this takeover is totally different. We haven't been bought with a view to making us a dominant force, everything from our new commercial deals to the continuing presence of old heads on the board, to our player acquisitions, to the continued loss of our biggest on field assets tells us that. I'm not having a go at Moshiri here, just pointing out that I don't think it's helpful to compare our situation to City or Chelsea's as if we're suddenly going to start doing what they did.

 

[The binman chronicles]

No it's directed at you because the original post was someone effectively saying 'I think it's clear that this takeover is not the same as theirs', and you responing along the lines of 'You're being harsh and making things suit your argument' before going on to say that actually you agree and this takeover is not like theirs.

I don't think there's any point in saying City didn't win a trophy for three years so just wait and see because I agree with you that this takeover is totally different. We haven't been bought with a view to making us a dominant force, everything from our new commercial deals to the continuing presence of old heads on the board, to our player acquisitions, to the continued loss of our biggest on field assets tells us that. I'm not having a go at Moshiri here, just pointing out that I don't think it's helpful to compare our situation to City or Chelsea's as if we're suddenly going to start doing what they did.

Then why did he mention Chelsea and City in saying they delivered what they set out to!!!

 

[EFC78]

...most people didn't think we'd turn into Southampton or Watford either.

2 consecutive seasons of 47 point 11th placed finishes under Roberto Martinez saw to that unfortunately. Until Moshiri correctly removed him from turning us from Southampton/Watford in to Leeds/Aston Villa/Blackburn or Bolton.

 

[davek]

2 consecutive seasons of 47 point 11th placed finishes under Roberto Martinez saw to that unfortunately. Until Moshiri correctly removed him from turning us from Southampton/Watford in to Leeds/Aston Villa/Blackburn or Bolton.

Oh dear. Please dont point the finger at the man who handed us our best ever PL season in the short time he was here...that is way more impressive than a man here two years who's practically destroyed the credibility of the club and sold all our best players.

 

[Lanolin]

Then why did he mention Chelsea and City in saying they delivered what they set out to!!!

Sorry I don't understand what you're getting at? He said:

'I think its safe to say the regimes that took over both Chelsea AND city are nothing like our new part owner. they are true to their word and are ambitious to win things, as has been proven.'

You appear to agree that the regimes are totally different, no? I mean, you responded saying 'most level headed Evertonians understood this takeover wasn't going to propell us to conquering all before us'.

As far as I can see, that was the poster's point - that Chelsea and City were bought with a view to becoming global superpowers, and we weren't. I assume the 'true to their word' bit related to Moshiri saying he would give all he had, having a short window to establish ourselves and claiming to have bid £60m for centre halves, before appointing Sam Allardyce and signing Cuco Martina.

 

[charlie atkins]

who gives a toss where the money comes from, its not our money, just build it

 

[Jt5688]

Oh dear. Please dont point the finger at the man who handed us our best ever PL season in the short time he was here...that is way more impressive than a man here two years who's practically destroyed the credibility of the club and sold all our best players.

What on earth is your obsession with Martinez??? Yes, it was a very fun season. Our best in the PL. It was also done with Moyes' defence. Once that defence started to age, falter, break up and fully play the way Martinez so demanded, the team fell apart and started losing games 3-4 and the like because they could not defend. He has no idea how to coach teams to defend. He never has. Lukaku aside, his signings were mostly atrocious and between him, Koeman and Walsh, they have left us with a bizarre and horribly unbalanced squad. Him on Koeman also shared one characteristic which was to spectacularly fall out with squad members who were then frozen out indefinitely, usually for daring to question their methods.

 

[Toffeelover]

There are lots of valid questions and criticisms about the club. Whether we are actually progressing as a squad/team is by no means clear and there are lots of valid criticisms of the board. Few if any would argue that we are run well commercially, getting it right in terms of manager/DoF or that we have handled the last 3 transfer windows well. Kenwright and Elstone are still there. Walsh is not inspiring anyone. Loads to validly have a pop at.

The stadium is very much wait and see. I'd argue that the initial timeline, driven by the Commonwealth Games bid, was always massively unrealistic. In fact if we actually get in to a new stadium by 2023/24 (one year later than the 'delayed' date from Elstone) we are on roughly the same timeline as Arsenal and Spurs from initial vision to completion. We are still a long way away from having funding in place, planning approved and building underway. Given the previous failures it isn't unreasonable to be sceptical but it is unfair to focus only on the negatives without also acknowledging actual progress (e.g. purchase of 200 year lease on site, the one solid fact in the whole story). Personally I'm 'believe it when I see it' but some people I know and trust who are usually hugely cynical are far more optimistic on this than I have ever seen them. The bottom line is none of us truly know and we'd all be well advised to wait for more facts to emerge rather than passing off opinion and speculation as fact.

On Finances the FACTS (not opinions, actual published and audited data) shows clearly that Moshiri (or some mystery figure behind Moshiri) has funded huge transfer activity and the BMD land purchase. Trying to deny it is or claim it all TV money just doesn't wash as I detailed above. It is like claiming the earth is flat. It is an opinion you can hold. It has no merit.

1. Correct
2. Underground survey is about to start.

 

[EFC78]

Oh dear. Please dont point the finger at the man who handed us our best ever PL season in the short time he was here...that is way more impressive than a man here two years who's practically destroyed the credibility of the club and sold all our best players.

What on earth is your obsession with Martinez??? Yes, it was a very fun season. Our best in the PL. It was also done with Moyes' defence. Once that defence started to age, falter, break up and fully play the way Martinez so demanded, the team fell apart and started losing games 3-4 and the like because they could not defend. He has no idea how to coach teams to defend. He never has. Lukaku aside, his signings were mostly atrocious and between him, Koeman and Walsh, they have left us with a bizarre and horribly unbalanced squad. Him on Koeman also shared one characteristic which was to spectacularly fall out with squad members who were then frozen out indefinitely, usually for daring to question their methods.

Dave, please don't attempt to rewrite history and call a 5th placed finish better than a 4th placed finish. Or are you going to say that Liverpool (84) and Chelsea (82) coming 2nd and 3rd during the 2013-14 season was a better season than Leicester winning the league with 81 points?

 

[Toffeelover]

...most people didn't think we'd turn into Southampton or Watford either.

We have not!

 

[davek]

We have not!

We are part of their peer group now.

 

[Toffeelover]

Oh dear. Please dont point the finger at the man who handed us our best ever PL season in the short time he was here...that is way more impressive than a man here two years who's practically destroyed the credibility of the club and sold all our best players.

What about the two years after RM's first Dave, were they so good? If you wish to quote history then do it all not cherry pick.