New Everton Stadium

[Hickson9]

Anyone think it really isn't clear now whether the Council will be guarantor or directly loaning?

Even on our OS it only says LCC will be "supporting".

 

[roydo]

Anyone think it really isn't clear now whether the Council will be guarantor or directly loaning?

Even on our OS it only says LCC will be "supporting".

Its murky, no doubt. My take is that LCC will not take cash out of budgets for care, housing etc etc, but will borrow the money at cheap rates in a ring fenced sort of way, with first dibs on the club if we dont pay it back.

Thats why I cant see its that much different than that SPV thing.

Probably miles off though.

 

[Hickson9]

Let's say 350 million via the council. Let's say it 'only' costs 500 million. How easy is it to get the remaining 150 million through financing? Some of that through naming rights, so let's say that drops it down to 120 million.

I guess that finance kicks in as the money from the council backed money runs out but needs arranging well in advance. Where's the equity to secure against? Everton the company already owe Moshiri 80 million or so. Would a new stadium increase Everton's worth on its own to act as guarantee against such a loan? Or will capital have to be found to pay part of the stadium (like a 10% deposit and 90% mortgage to cover the mortgage company against drops in house priced)?

Perversely enough, once we're half a billion in the hole, I think we're going to be ok. Too much money invested for us to fail.

If I were to guess at this, my finger in the air is 750 million for the stadium. Once we're in and the cash flows are all balanced then we see the end game of Moshiri's tenure. He will have left us better off if this comes to fruition. We shall see...

We will get far more than £30m for stadium naming rights mate. Look at what we get just for Finch Farm.

 

[Hickson9]

Its murky, no doubt. My take is that LCC will not take cash out of budgets for care, housing etc etc, but will borrow the money at cheap rates in a ring fenced sort of way, with first dibs on the club if we dont pay it back.

Thats why I cant see its that much different than that SPV thing.

Probably miles off though.

Yeah mate, I'm also seeing it as not very different to what was previously proposed in that Invest to Earn document. Definitely needs to be completely clarified though.

 

[Pabbers]

We will get far more than £30m for stadium naming rights mate. Look at what we get just for Finch Farm.

Exactly, naming rights could pretty much pay the yearly installments, meaning the stadium never gers paid by us.

 

[MartSlinger]

Exactly, naming rights could pretty much pay the yearly installments, meaning the stadium never gers paid by us.

Never out of pocket, self sufficient stadium. Thats exactly what we want and getting the finance for the Stadium through these means allow us to not shy away from the playing side of the game.

You'd imagine as well as naming rights, with it being hopefully upwards of 55k seater, it'll be holding the bigger events that the City has so theres the money generated from that also.

 

[Sir Alan]

I was very encouraged by Mr Moshiri's insistence that our stadium will not be inferior to Wet Ham's in terms of capacity i.e. it will not have a capacity of less than 60,000.

He actually say that? That’s good I am expecting 65,000 if we do end up leaving.

 

[Sir Alan]

I'm all for the idea of getting the local council to lend us the money to purchase a new stadium, but you have to admit that it will be no surprise if this does not happen. The fact that there is no alternative to relying on the council to lend us the money is concerning.

I don't trust Moshiri et al. I think it is all smoke and mirrors along with some clever accounting. People harp on about his investment so far, as if it's some massive figure, but the truth is that it isn't even enough to gain control of a club like Newcastle in 2018. The sale of Newcastle is to include the debt as well, so there will be none of this transfering of debt but describing it as investment into the club.

The amount of money that Moshiri has invested into Everton is minimal in this day and age, and it's nowhere near enough to get us where we would like to be. He has come into the club, sold our best players, and is now begging the council to build a stadium for him. It's just not the actions of the type of owner that he purports to be.

He’s just the enabler to get the stadium that’s all he is. Kenwright has had a dream with him, he’s already made him very rich, he still has another big payday to come and still gets to play King Super Bloo

 

[Sir Alan]

What’s the time scale on this now then in the short term? When are the council going to tell us to jog on and we can add failed stadium move 4 to Bill’s list of achievements including introducing Rocky to Everton and ermmmm longest barren spell in the clubs history..... I jest....

 

[davek]

The Joe Anderson argument is lame: £7-10M back each other for the council is nothing in this day and age. A drop in the ocean, and will represent less as the years go by. That in no way shape or form outweighs the potential risk involved over such a long period.

There is no way LCC can sign off on this. None.

This is the first stage of a retreat away from the BMD scheme.

 

[nsno-chris]

Its murky, no doubt. My take is that LCC will not take cash out of budgets for care, housing etc etc, but will borrow the money at cheap rates in a ring fenced sort of way, with first dibs on the club if we dont pay it back.

Thats why I cant see its that much different than that SPV thing.

Probably miles off though.

They’re not allowed to remove use that money, that’s for the delivery of statutory requirements only. As you’ve said the Council will need to borrow but that’s when the issues will arise.

It’ll need to go back to Cabinet to receive approval, Fat joe will have members raising massive concerns from their residents. Then audit would need to have a look because the risk has changed seeing as LCC now have a £300m direct debt

The water is definitely muddy

 

[Jacko93]

Its murky, no doubt. My take is that LCC will not take cash out of budgets for care, housing etc etc, but will borrow the money at cheap rates in a ring fenced sort of way, with first dibs on the club if we dont pay it back.

Thats why I cant see its that much different than that SPV thing.

Probably miles off though.

LCC cannot lend £300 or what ever million to fund the council payments. they can't get that money and plough it into saving libraries or social care, fix potholes or anything like that. What they can do is lend money to support city level investment and development, then use what money they make off that to fund whatever they want.

I dont see it as far off being what is happening at City. The money for City's ground was given to Manchester council by Europe, and the UK Govt to support the Commonwealth games, City now 'rent' it off the council. Manchester City could very easily buy their ground at what ever price the Council could feasibly ask for, but it suits the council more if they don't. If City bought the ground tomorrow, the funding that was given to the Council will have to be paid back to the lenders, as it stands now, they don't, so they utilise the funds gathered from the rent and push it back into the local economy.

The only real big difference I see here, is that we will be paying the loan back as well.

This is only me summising, and figures/economics is not my thing at all. I do know that's whats happening at City though.

 

[Jacko93]

The Joe Anderson argument is lame: £7-10M back each other for the council is nothing in this day and age. A drop in the ocean, and will represent less as the years go by. That in no way shape or form outweighs the potential risk involved over such a long period.

There is no way LCC can sign off on this. None.

This is the first stage of a retreat away from the BMD scheme.

Surely at some level it must be linked to inflation. Though I wouldn't refuse £100 off somebody cause it might only be worth £98 in 5 years time.

 

[kithnou]

I was very encouraged by Mr Moshiri's insistence that our stadium will not be inferior to Wet Ham's in terms of capacity i.e. it will not have a capacity of less than 60,000.

Did he say that?

 

[davek]

Surely at some level it must be linked to inflation. Though I wouldn't refuse £100 off somebody cause it might only be worth £98 in 5 years time.

There's been almost half a billion quid LCC have had slashed from their budgets since 2010. Anderson proposes loaning £270M to a football club on the strength of raising *upwards* of £10M a year back in payments.

Does that sound like a great idea to you?

It sounds nuts to me.