New Everton Stadium

[Achilles Heel]

There is a club across the park that doesn't seem to worry too much about pricing out the working class Scouser. They do this because they know they have a load of plastic fans that will pay through the nose to watch them in a city they have no real affinity too. Their owners are American and 'soccer' is not their core sport. It's an add-on.

Everton do not have that following but they do have an opportunity to build a super stadium in a once in a lifetime location, retain their true fans and then milk the TV revenues accordingly to remain competitive with the help of a billionaire and his associates. It's a different model, but it could work.

 

[GwladysBlue]

How do you marry up having a ridiculously expensive world class waterside Stadium and paying affordable prices. I want a Five star all inclusive Holiday on a tranquil Caribbean island for Butlins prices can you help me out with that as well.

As for Moshiri/Usmanov they are hard nosed businessmen who have built up billion pound empires by being absolutely ruthless. Why are we now relying on them turning into soft benefactors willing to subsidise cheap tickets ?

Have you not been around to see what’s going on with us in the past two seasons? We’re prepared to pay huge transfer fees and wages. Moshiri and Usmanov said the prices at Arsenal we’re not fair on the fans.

I’m going to put my faith in somebody who actually knows the details on the club and what we can and can’t do, not some cryarse on the internet.

 

[Achilles Heel]

What opportunity Liverpool has ridiculously low prices per sqm for both residential and retail properties. Peel has sat on this project for years and put a 50 year plan in place. This isn't a huge gold mine waiting to be exploited this is a huge punt that USM and Peel don't feel is worth the the risk. So guess what they are looking for the Council to borrow the money for them. Yes companies worth billions are asking normal working class people to take the risk whilst they take all the profit.

They will borrow the money from LCC but still have to pay it back don't they? My understanding is that the borrowing is to do with favourable interest rates that only the council can access. I don't think they are borrowing from the Council to avoid having to pay it back but maybe you have some inside info that places the city of Liverpool and it's tax payers in jeopardy.

 

[davek]

Says similar to me. Granted, tempered rhetoric in the second quote, but rhetoric is determined by the audience it is directed at.

Quote 1. Business/property folk.

Quote 2. Weirdos who reckon them putting a certificate in the mayors office is a big deal.

There's a change of tone that suggests Anderson has ditched the bravado now that the reality of being the figure who loses the city it's WHS. He's always got an eye on his own legacy and I think he's increasingly mindful of not jeopardising the sites status. There's a delicate balancing act that needs to be set up down there on the waterfront. That'll all take time to sort out. And the likelihood is that other objections will surface.

We're miles off this, and all the while costs will rise.

 

[Dabluez]

I don't think ticket prices count for much these days after TV deals, advertising, naming rights and hospitality which would all increase with a decent stadium plus what the use of the stadium makes during summer months for events

Everyone in the Premier League gets the TV money, it is an irrelevance. Deduct it from a Clubs income and you start to get a true picture. Hospitality that means charging true blues £200-300 a game. Can you afford that I can't.

 

[davek]

As I said before I'm convinced they would downsize the plans at that point if they were forced to do so. If we can't raise more funds for a stadium on the waterfront what chance have we in a backwater industrial/brown field site so that would be the budget that we would have to work with and it would only buy you less the more you wait. So the choice would be move to a functional stadium at BM or hold out and get less further on down the line.

I think if that scenario arose it'd be more likely to resemble a DK scheme with public and private partners.

 

[Dabluez]

They will borrow the money from LCC but still have to pay it back don't they? My understanding is that the borrowing is to do with favourable interest rates that only the council can access. I don't think they are borrowing from the Council to avoid having to pay it back but maybe you have some inside info that places the city of Liverpool and its tax payers in jeopardy.

The council is borrowing from a central government fund the Public Works Loan Board. It is the council that is borrowing the money and the council who will the one held responsible if the repayments aren't met. So that is the citizens of Liverpool who are taking the risk and it is Peel and USM who will benefit if it comes off.

 

[Achilles Heel]

The council is borrowing from a central government fund the Public Works Loan Board. It is the council that is borrowing the money and the council who will the one held responsible if the repayments aren't met. So that is the citizens of Liverpool who are taking the risk and it is Peel and USM who will benefit if it comes off.

Yes I know, but that doesn't mean that Everton can just cut and run does it once they get the keys? We are owned by a billionaire - think he might have to cough up if we defaulted. I am pretty sure the Council will have thought of this.

 

[Dabluez]

There is a club across the park that doesn't seem to worry too much about pricing out the working class Scouser. They do this because they know they have a load of plastic fans that will pay through the nose to watch them in a city they have no real affinity too. Their owners are American and 'soccer' is not their core sport. It's an add-on.

Everton do not have that following but they do have an opportunity to build a super stadium in a once in a lifetime location, retain their true fans and then milk the TV revenues accordingly to remain competitive with the help of a billionaire and his associates. It's a different model, but it could work.

That is a bit like you saying you have a once in a lifetime opportunity to build a 5 bedroom mansion with a swimming pool. That only makes sense if you have the income to pay for it. We are expecting a billionaire cut throat investor to buy it us for nothing.

 

[SpongeBob brown shoes]

Hospitality that means charging true blues £200-300 a game. Can you afford that I can't.

No I can't but i'd stick to the 5 and a half hundred pounds season tickets, sorry, I was actually thinking more sbout corporate seats when I wrote hospitality, Goodison now must miss out on that market?

 

[Dabluez]

Yes I know, but that doesn't mean that Everton can just cut and run does it once they get the keys? We are owned by a billionaire - think he might have to cough up if we defaulted. I am pretty sure the Council will have thought of this.

The Redshite were owned by 2 Billionaires and still should of gone into administration. Sunderland are owned by Elliss Short who is a billionaire, The fat F@@k at Newcastle is worth 2 or 3 Moshiri's, QPR got relegated whilst being owned by people who had the wealth of a small nation.

They become billionaires because they don't use their own money so there is no risk.

 

[Achilles Heel]

That is a bit like you saying you have a once in a lifetime opportunity to build a 5 bedroom mansion with a swimming pool. That only makes sense if you have the income to pay for it. We are expecting a billionaire cut throat investor to buy it us for nothing.

Nope - Im expecting a billionaire investor to guarantee the money for us that we will repay over a set period of time, fund any shortfall whilst helping us to become more competitive on the pitch which will in turn improve revenue. If we don't take this risk now, we are dead in the water, destined to just make up the numbers. My feeling is if that happens, season ticket and regular support will decline and at some point Everton will be relegated. I'd prefer us to take the chance now.

 

[Dabluez]

Nope - Im expecting a billionaire investor to guarantee the money for us that we will repay over a set period of time, fund any shortfall whilst helping us to become more competitive on the pitch which will in turn improve revenue. If we don't take this risk now, we are dead in the water, destined to just make up the numbers. My feeling is if that happens, season ticket and regular support will decline and at some point Everton will be relegated. I'd prefer us to take the chance now.

You have lost on the first line though. Our billionaire investor isn't prepared to guarantee the money he is relying on the council. Whilst it may be true that the council can borrow the money cheaper than the Club it is also true that Moshiri/Usmanov could lend the money at an inter company rate that would blow the current deal out of the water.

WHY WON'T THEY DO THAT ?

 

[Achilles Heel]

You have lost on the first line though. Our billionaire investor isn't prepared to guarantee the money he is relying on the council. Whilst it may be true that the council can borrow the money cheaper than the Club it is also true that Moshiri/Usmanov could lend the money at an inter company rate that would blow the current deal out of the water.

WHY WON'T THEY DO THAT ?

Ok..didn't realize I was in a competitive situation. Lost!?!? Thought we were just expressing opinions albeit slightly differing ones. I'll keep my counsel and call it a draw until the Everton Board confirm that you are right, I am wrong, Moshiri's a fraud and we are going to Croxteth or Kirkby after all. Or (perish the thought) we are going to BMD.

 

[Dr Baxter]

You can look at what may or may not happen with the Stadium, whether Joe will be able to wangle the financing, whether Mosh will stump up the rest of the cash, whether it will affect the UNESCO status.

The thing is that is all irrelevant when it comes down to it, the only things that matters are the numbers. Whether the numbers add up or not.

The harsh truth is that the numbers simply don't add up. Over the last few years the attendances have gone up. Last year we averaged over 39000 for the first time in the Premier League era and guess what our matchday income fell again. We had 99% occupancy last season but earned a paltry £14m. Less than we earned in 2013 and 50% LESS THAN WE EARNED IN 2015.

Think about that for a second. We are looking to build a Stadium that will be £500m+ and we have a matchday income of £14m. No wonder Joe is looking to the council to underwrite the loan because there is no way you could build a sensible business plan that would justify a £500m+ loan with our match day income.

We are being sucker punched with a streets paved with gold fantasy.

Sorry, I just don't understand your point. We will be moving to a new stadium precisely because the new stadium will, ultimately, pay for itself in the shape of a a higher income be it through more executive boxes, other events other than football, huge increase in the amount the ordinary fan spends outside and inside the stadium due to vastly superior food and drink offering and an increase of possibly up to 20,000 spectators coming to each home game and a huge amount earned through naming rights to name but a few things. Your argument seems to be that Goodison Park cannot afford to pay for Bramley-Moore. I'm confused.