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New Everton Stadium

alvinh said:
You may be right but is that really the case? Off the top of my head:

A stadium that regularly has empty seats could act as a disincentive to season ticket sales with some fans deciding to be more selective on which games they attend.

Empty seats detract from atmosphere, damaging the experience of those who have attended.

The availability of cheaper seats could see some existing fans trading down, so instead of bringing in new supporters the club winds up taking less from existing matchgoers.

Finally, financing the bigger stadium could have an impact on money available for the team. Arsenal had a relatively thin few years in the Emirates as they tightened their belt. Wenger got them through that by continuing to qualify for CL football.

I get your point and if you're right and the gamble pays off then great. Most business people though would need to see sufficient evidence for future revenue before funding a lift in capacity of over 50%. It's a big gamble with the club's future finances.
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I can appreciate your points but there are arguments against. Doesn't mean either is the winner, they just stand alongside to weigh up. Season tickets actually reduce the income as people get the seat at a discounted value. What season tickets do bring is guaranteed income, however our percentage is higher than many clubs who have far bigger stadiums.

Look at it this way I think we have under 7k available for walk ups, the 30 or so thousand season ticket holders have committed to go to every game, these people unless they wanted to drop going to quite a few games wouldn't want to pay 50 quid per time as a walk up. If we keep a similar amount of ST at BM then we would have roughly 15k available for walk ups. This is still very small compared to almost every decently sized club in the country.

There is no reason that a 55/58/60k would be unreasonable. Especially given the fact that it becomes so much more expensive to build as an extension than it is to do it first time around. If we had a design where basically you could fill in the corners at a later date then it would make sense to wait, but seeing this is going to be it, bar standing - which every club would then increase by a similar amount. You have to build for the future and not just now.

No one likes empty stadiums but when you have 40k in 75k then it feels empty. 50k in 55k wouldn't. Some of the better atmospheres at Goodison have been when there was a crowd of 33k and it didn't particularly look empty when that used to be the average gate. To have a good atmosphere you need young blood, if the current matchday crowd are happy to go for the next 10/20 years then you'll get ever older and presumably quieter fans. Make the next generation blues and give them opportunities to go to the game.

On the finance side of things, Arsenal basically shut up shop after they built the stadium as they weren't prepared to mortgage over a longer term. Moshiri and Usmanov both signed an open letter explaining that they could have built the stadium and still have spent in the transfer market. So we are not doing this to constrict spending, we will be getting a stadium that pays for itself + a bit more to put back in the team.
 
Neiler said:
The stadium needs to be multi purpose as it has so much going for it in terms of location and access, i visited SJP in Newcastle on a non match day a few years back and got speaking to the stadium manager, he talked of the economics of the stadium away from football economics as a stand alone business, he told me the stadium exists as a business without Newcastle UTD as a facility financially, but Newcastle Utd doesn't exist without the stadium as a club. Such is the force of the stadium as an income generator for the club.

Other examples are Croke Park in Dublin that i would be familiar with, an excellent multi purpose facility that really drives revenue, away from the sport.

If done right, BMD could be a huge shot in the arm of growing the club by offering initiatives and facilities away from football.

Imagine all the cruise ships docking every day and offering this just as one brief example of many innitives:

https://crokepark.ie/gaa-museum-tours/ericsson-skyline

Skyline Tour gallery and city views - Croke Park

The Skyline Tour is a top Dublin tourist attraction and offers exhilarating views across Dublin from the roof of Croke Park stadium. View our gallery.
crokepark.ie

Best views of Dublin, BMD would be the same in Liverpool, you could have lunch packages etc. It all adds up every day.
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Unfortunately though, if it wants to offer the best views of the city it either needs to be the other side of the water, or be taller than the Anglican Catherdral!
 
AndyC said:
Income wise we are already miles and miles behind the big clubs, and the gap will continue to grow and weaken our chance to close the gap unless Moshiri gets a proper grip on the club and stops (people being comfortable and not driving constantly for better) accepting second-best or worse from all elements of the business.

Without the revenue streams to support the DoF/manager with team strengthening, we will find it increasingly difficult to compete at a level where we all feel we should be competing.

Other than the basic idea of a new stadium at BMD, we have no idea of what long-term plan Moshiri has for Everton, if indeed a plan even exists.
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Of course totally agree, I'm just trying to highlight the fact that apart from having a shiny new stadium (which would be nice no arguments there), by spending 500-600 million to try to narrow that income gap we spectacularly fail to get anywhere near even clubs like Spurs/Chelsea (just in terms of matchday income and commercial opportunities that comes from the stadium), then we may as well save that money and what would be paid out in interest and not bother.
 
The binman chronicles said:
Of course totally agree, I'm just trying to highlight the fact that apart from having a shiny new stadium (which would be nice no arguments there), by spending 500-600 million to try to narrow that income gap we spectacularly fail to get anywhere near even clubs like Spurs/Chelsea (just in terms of matchday income and commercial opportunities that comes from the stadium), then we may as well save that money and what would be paid out in interest and not bother.
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I don't think there's any stadium design of any capacity for a site in Liverpool that could deliver the revenues the London club's can generate.
 
alvinh said:
I don't think there's any stadium design of any capacity for a site in Liverpool that could deliver the revenues the London club's can generate.
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No you are spot on there, the fact that the waterfront skyline is historic and often filmed might help us get near London prices for sponsorship of the stadium, but yes ticket prices will yield less and that is why I am miffed at 52k especially seeing the difficulty expanding it later. We should be trying to maximize without being silly, obviously I'm not saying 65k+ as that would be way harder to justify.

In my mind we will be making the exact same mistake that we did at Goodison, albeit being in a nicer area with a modern stadium. I may turn out wrong and attendances start to drop and the other stadiums around the country start removing seats but I can't see it.
 

degsy said:
Virtual reality.?
We've yet to accept real reality yet

Past or present is all irrelevant, I've seen the future and its 52,000
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Kind of agree with this. You can use attendances from the past to big up the capacity or to suggest a lower one. It's all irrelevant. We are where we are. I'd like 55,000 with a clear indication of how we go bigger, if and when needed.
 
The binman chronicles said:
Don't take for granted the TV money will always be there. We had one of the largest stadiums in the country and still managed to fall behind badly. We will just be in the top 10 this time, with Utd, Spurs, West Ham, City and them having 10k over us. Arsenal with 8k more.

To be hemmed in on three sides and with that kind of differential could leave us adrift without a benefactor.
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Very valid observations but may I offer another reason why I reckon a massive stadium would be a part empty embarrassment.

I suspect attendances peaked when utd were in their pomp and went to 78k they looked well capable of filling a 100k stadium but interestingly never built one - they must have known something. In a similar fashion the other global entity, the RS, have gently nibbled away at anfield rather than go the swanky huge stadium route despite a site, a design and planning permission. Finally, all conquering Man City always with a strong core of loyal fans like us are seemingly incapable of filling the bigger Etihad despite monumental success we can only dream of. I just think a realistic uplift in new match goers takes us to the mid 50k region

If we could build a variable capacity stadium that always looked full despite the attendance I'd be up for a huge capacity it but I don't know if such a thing exists in addition every club building a new stadium has turned to absolute cack so I don't see BMD as the panacea many seem to believe
 

Today’s game only reinforces my opinion that we would be better off staying at Goodison and simply erecting more very wide support pillars ..when you’re watching Everton, the more obstructed views, the better...
 

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