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New Everton Stadium

Labour Party leader election tomorrow and Andy Burnham is in the running!
Is it off the wall to suggest that having a massive Evertonian as Labour Party leader - and in 5 years, possibly British Prime Minister, could help us get some backing and even some help in cutting through red tape when plans like Walton Hall Park get called in?
 
Labour Party leader election tomorrow and Andy Burnham is in the running!
Is it off the wall to suggest that having a massive Evertonian as Labour Party leader - and in 5 years, possibly British Prime Minister, could help us get some backing and even some help in cutting through red tape when plans like Walton Hall Park get called in?

Yes.

First off because, barring some drastic event, it'll be another Conservative majority in the next election.

Secondly because that's just silly.
 
The thing with the stadium though is that the board have a duty to investigate all options; redevelopment and re-location and decide which offer the best financial and business sense. The main issue people have is the complete lack of clarity with respect to their decision making which seems to be only considering enablement-led schemes in the suburbs.

I don't think people would have an issue if they came out and said 'we're doing this because the benefits will be x, y and z' but that is something they have consistently failed to do, catastrophically in the case of Kirkby.
Fully agree.
 
Fully agree.
Hard to argue against the belief that everything about Kirkby was driven by members of the Board looking to fill their pockets in the long run, as that proposal had next to nothing that would benefit the Everton FC or its supporters long term.
An absolute farce of the highest order.
 
The thing with the stadium though is that the board have a duty to investigate all options; redevelopment and re-location and decide which offer the best financial and business sense. The main issue people have is the complete lack of clarity with respect to their decision making which seems to be only considering enablement-led schemes in the suburbs.

I don't think people would have an issue if they came out and said 'we're doing this because the benefits will be x, y and z' but that is something they have consistently failed to do, catastrophically in the case of Kirkby.

But we were told by bolly billox (Re: DK) that there was nowhere else & they'd explored every other scenario/venue/site.

Barry Scott (No - not him of the cillit bang advert!) made an FoI request about Stanley Park. Here's the reply from LCC

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ...tach/html/3/56264 Scott draft 280409.doc.html

Bill doesn't tell LIES, though - ask them nice journalists........He just 'makes mistakes'. :dodgy:
 

Labour Party leader election tomorrow and Andy Burnham is in the running!
Is it off the wall to suggest that having a massive Evertonian as Labour Party leader - and in 5 years, possibly British Prime Minister, could help us get some backing and even some help in cutting through red tape when plans like Walton Hall Park get called in?

No. I am a die hard Blue but even then would not want to see taxpayer's money dished out for this. Add to that what backing do you think he could get? Oh I know get the RMT to buy BK's shares and put 200 mill into the club for the stadium.

Go back to cheese on toast Mate.
 
two different scenarios mate:

10,000 x 19 games x £50 = £9,500,000
2,000 x 19 games x £175 = £6,650,000

Total revenue increase = £16 million (not £15m as I approximated) - this was to answer @Adversus point

My model is as follows:

10% increase in ticket prices, plus increase in attendances (39k to 50k) = increase in revenues of £8.3 m (I am not pricing the extra tickets at £50, just 10% higher than today's current prices)

Reduction in running costs = £2 million

Naming rights = £2 million

Hospitality sales increase = 2,000 x 19 x £175 = £ 6.65 million

Increase in net revenues = £8.3m + £2m + £2m + 6.65m = £19 milllion (hence my approximate £20 million comment)

Came across this thread, so scratched my head a bit and then realised why I couldn't agree the figures that anyone had put forward, so here's my take, if there is anything glaringly wrong in my assumptions or just plain daft, please feel free to lambast.

Starting point for me was trying to ascertain the current average yield per seat occupied at Goodison. Bear in mind that all Premier League (at least) ticket sales must go through GPSL because of the Securitisation deal.

GPSL 2014 accounts where the actual gate receipts are included - £15,259,734.00

This figure then needs to be reduced by Everton's share of the away supporters ticket sales at GP. To do this I had to make assumptions so I based it on an away supporter paying on average £30+VAT per seat of which GPSL get 50%, therefor £15 per ticket, an average of 1500 away supporters turning up, so deduct 15x1500x19 = £427,500 from turnover to get the Everton supporters gate receipts - £14,832,234.00

Next stop was Everton's accounts which usefully give an average Premier League attendance of 37,732. Deduct the average away support of 1500 used above and you are left with 36232x19 = 688,408 good Evertonian backsides on seats during the Premier League season.
Divide the Everton supporters gate receipts by the number of Evertonian backsides - £14,832,234/688,408 = £21.55

So per the information available and a couple of assumptions, the average seat cost is £21.55p (+VAT)

Next thing was to calculate the "Hospitality premium" this excludes the cost of the seat as calculated above.

So, Group account matchday receipts - £19,339,000, deduct GPSL turnover in full of 15,259,734 giving a difference of £4,079,266.00

This figure includes at least 2 other things by my reckoning - programme sales and the Everton share of our nomads away ticket sales. Calculated these as follows:
Programmes say 5000x19x£2.50 = £237,500

Our nomads - 2500 fansx19x£18 (other clubs do tend to charge more) = 855,000.

So the total "Hospitality premium" is £(4079266-237500-855000) =£2,986,766

The figures that I used for hospitality numbers during the season were 1000 per match, so 19000, giving an average premium of £157.20p

So to the new Stadium.

Used increase of 12,000 (11,500 EFC, 500 away) so an average of a tad under 50k, based on a 55000 seater stadium being 90%+.

For bums on seats, the increase for EFC supporters is 19x21.55x11500 = 4,707,736.01, away support is 500x15x19 = 142,500.00 so a total of £4,850,236.01p for the season.

For Hospitality premium, have used 2000 as you suggested, so 19x2000x157.20p = 5,973,532.00 so the total increase in gate and hospitality would be £10,823,768.01p. Add back the Group match day receipts figure of 19,339,000 and the revised turnover figure is £30,162,768.01p.

Admittedly, this is based on the 13/14 accounts, and the glaring one really is that GPSL turnover probably includes the 2 home cup matches we played that season, so £21.55+VAT is probably more than the average yield per seat per League match. Guestimate, West Ham would generate about £17 per seat, crowd was 33K? so say 561k and the Capital One Cup tie was a really cheap do with loads of kids, so probably yielded about 12 a seat, think 22k there so 264,000. This would take the average down by approximately £801/688 or £1.16 per premier league seat yield to£ 20.39 is. It should also be pointed out that there would have been hospitality at West Ham & Capital One cup, so even this premium is overstated.

The point is, that so many seats are sold on concessionary bases that the match day take would probably not cover the servicing of a debt greater than a £115,000,000 loan at 8% over 30 years(Excel loan calculator again), so is it viable on a stand alone basis without ridding the club of the TV rights debt?

I also appreciate that I have not taken into account other factors such as naming rights and reductions in repairs and maintenance and I have not added the 10% across the board rise that you have included, but in terms of revenue without swingeing rises in yields per seat from 2013/14 levels, the 16 mil is unattainable.

Anyway, can't remember if my season ticket went up in 2014/15, but I can replicate the calculations and update when the 2015 accounts hit the public domain. If anyone has got this far, I doff my cap to you, and if anyone can give me more solid assumptions, then I can amend it.

Coffee, cigarettes, and life required!!!
 
Just realised, lack of sleep kicked in and there were 2 FA Cup matches that season, QPR and Swansea, so if Swansea were at the rate of say £18 average with 33k in the stadium giving receipts of (31000x18) + (2000x15) (away supporters) = 588,000 then a further reduction of £588/688 or 84p would have to be deducted from the average yield per seat. Hold my head in shame - West Ham!!!

Only other ting is that no adjustment has been made in respect of the Hospitality premium, so I would be confident of saying that that is overstate by about £10 as well. Problem is there are too many variables and uncertainties, but given those constraints best I can do.
 
Came across this thread, so scratched my head a bit and then realised why I couldn't agree the figures that anyone had put forward, so here's my take, if there is anything glaringly wrong in my assumptions or just plain daft, please feel free to lambast.

Starting point for me was trying to ascertain the current average yield per seat occupied at Goodison. Bear in mind that all Premier League (at least) ticket sales must go through GPSL because of the Securitisation deal.

GPSL 2014 accounts where the actual gate receipts are included - £15,259,734.00

This figure then needs to be reduced by Everton's share of the away supporters ticket sales at GP. To do this I had to make assumptions so I based it on an away supporter paying on average £30+VAT per seat of which GPSL get 50%, therefor £15 per ticket, an average of 1500 away supporters turning up, so deduct 15x1500x19 = £427,500 from turnover to get the Everton supporters gate receipts - £14,832,234.00

Next stop was Everton's accounts which usefully give an average Premier League attendance of 37,732. Deduct the average away support of 1500 used above and you are left with 36232x19 = 688,408 good Evertonian backsides on seats during the Premier League season.
Divide the Everton supporters gate receipts by the number of Evertonian backsides - £14,832,234/688,408 = £21.55

So per the information available and a couple of assumptions, the average seat cost is £21.55p (+VAT)

Next thing was to calculate the "Hospitality premium" this excludes the cost of the seat as calculated above.

So, Group account matchday receipts - £19,339,000, deduct GPSL turnover in full of 15,259,734 giving a difference of £4,079,266.00

This figure includes at least 2 other things by my reckoning - programme sales and the Everton share of our nomads away ticket sales. Calculated these as follows:
Programmes say 5000x19x£2.50 = £237,500

Our nomads - 2500 fansx19x£18 (other clubs do tend to charge more) = 855,000.

So the total "Hospitality premium" is £(4079266-237500-855000) =£2,986,766

The figures that I used for hospitality numbers during the season were 1000 per match, so 19000, giving an average premium of £157.20p

So to the new Stadium.

Used increase of 12,000 (11,500 EFC, 500 away) so an average of a tad under 50k, based on a 55000 seater stadium being 90%+.

For bums on seats, the increase for EFC supporters is 19x21.55x11500 = 4,707,736.01, away support is 500x15x19 = 142,500.00 so a total of £4,850,236.01p for the season.

For Hospitality premium, have used 2000 as you suggested, so 19x2000x157.20p = 5,973,532.00 so the total increase in gate and hospitality would be £10,823,768.01p. Add back the Group match day receipts figure of 19,339,000 and the revised turnover figure is £30,162,768.01p.

Admittedly, this is based on the 13/14 accounts, and the glaring one really is that GPSL turnover probably includes the 2 home cup matches we played that season, so £21.55+VAT is probably more than the average yield per seat per League match. Guestimate, West Ham would generate about £17 per seat, crowd was 33K? so say 561k and the Capital One Cup tie was a really cheap do with loads of kids, so probably yielded about 12 a seat, think 22k there so 264,000. This would take the average down by approximately £801/688 or £1.16 per premier league seat yield to£ 20.39 is. It should also be pointed out that there would have been hospitality at West Ham & Capital One cup, so even this premium is overstated.

The point is, that so many seats are sold on concessionary bases that the match day take would probably not cover the servicing of a debt greater than a £115,000,000 loan at 8% over 30 years(Excel loan calculator again), so is it viable on a stand alone basis without ridding the club of the TV rights debt?

I also appreciate that I have not taken into account other factors such as naming rights and reductions in repairs and maintenance and I have not added the 10% across the board rise that you have included, but in terms of revenue without swingeing rises in yields per seat from 2013/14 levels, the 16 mil is unattainable.

Anyway, can't remember if my season ticket went up in 2014/15, but I can replicate the calculations and update when the 2015 accounts hit the public domain. If anyone has got this far, I doff my cap to you, and if anyone can give me more solid assumptions, then I can amend it.

Coffee, cigarettes, and life required!!!

Just realised, lack of sleep kicked in and there were 2 FA Cup matches that season, QPR and Swansea, so if Swansea were at the rate of say £18 average with 33k in the stadium giving receipts of (31000x18) + (2000x15) (away supporters) = 588,000 then a further reduction of £588/688 or 84p would have to be deducted from the average yield per seat. Hold my head in shame - West Ham!!!

Only other ting is that no adjustment has been made in respect of the Hospitality premium, so I would be confident of saying that that is overstate by about £10 as well. Problem is there are too many variables and uncertainties, but given those constraints best I can do.


Be arsed with that !
Can somebody please read it and then explain ?
Thank you.
 
Came across this thread, so scratched my head a bit and then realised why I couldn't agree the figures that anyone had put forward, so here's my take, if there is anything glaringly wrong in my assumptions or just plain daft, please feel free to lambast.

Starting point for me was trying to ascertain the current average yield per seat occupied at Goodison. Bear in mind that all Premier League (at least) ticket sales must go through GPSL because of the Securitisation deal.

GPSL 2014 accounts where the actual gate receipts are included - £15,259,734.00

This figure then needs to be reduced by Everton's share of the away supporters ticket sales at GP. To do this I had to make assumptions so I based it on an away supporter paying on average £30+VAT per seat of which GPSL get 50%, therefor £15 per ticket, an average of 1500 away supporters turning up, so deduct 15x1500x19 = £427,500 from turnover to get the Everton supporters gate receipts - £14,832,234.00

Next stop was Everton's accounts which usefully give an average Premier League attendance of 37,732. Deduct the average away support of 1500 used above and you are left with 36232x19 = 688,408 good Evertonian backsides on seats during the Premier League season.
Divide the Everton supporters gate receipts by the number of Evertonian backsides - £14,832,234/688,408 = £21.55

So per the information available and a couple of assumptions, the average seat cost is £21.55p (+VAT)

Next thing was to calculate the "Hospitality premium" this excludes the cost of the seat as calculated above.

So, Group account matchday receipts - £19,339,000, deduct GPSL turnover in full of 15,259,734 giving a difference of £4,079,266.00

This figure includes at least 2 other things by my reckoning - programme sales and the Everton share of our nomads away ticket sales. Calculated these as follows:
Programmes say 5000x19x£2.50 = £237,500

Our nomads - 2500 fansx19x£18 (other clubs do tend to charge more) = 855,000.

So the total "Hospitality premium" is £(4079266-237500-855000) =£2,986,766

The figures that I used for hospitality numbers during the season were 1000 per match, so 19000, giving an average premium of £157.20p

So to the new Stadium.

Used increase of 12,000 (11,500 EFC, 500 away) so an average of a tad under 50k, based on a 55000 seater stadium being 90%+.

For bums on seats, the increase for EFC supporters is 19x21.55x11500 = 4,707,736.01, away support is 500x15x19 = 142,500.00 so a total of £4,850,236.01p for the season.

For Hospitality premium, have used 2000 as you suggested, so 19x2000x157.20p = 5,973,532.00 so the total increase in gate and hospitality would be £10,823,768.01p. Add back the Group match day receipts figure of 19,339,000 and the revised turnover figure is £30,162,768.01p.

Admittedly, this is based on the 13/14 accounts, and the glaring one really is that GPSL turnover probably includes the 2 home cup matches we played that season, so £21.55+VAT is probably more than the average yield per seat per League match. Guestimate, West Ham would generate about £17 per seat, crowd was 33K? so say 561k and the Capital One Cup tie was a really cheap do with loads of kids, so probably yielded about 12 a seat, think 22k there so 264,000. This would take the average down by approximately £801/688 or £1.16 per premier league seat yield to£ 20.39 is. It should also be pointed out that there would have been hospitality at West Ham & Capital One cup, so even this premium is overstated.

The point is, that so many seats are sold on concessionary bases that the match day take would probably not cover the servicing of a debt greater than a £115,000,000 loan at 8% over 30 years(Excel loan calculator again), so is it viable on a stand alone basis without ridding the club of the TV rights debt?

I also appreciate that I have not taken into account other factors such as naming rights and reductions in repairs and maintenance and I have not added the 10% across the board rise that you have included, but in terms of revenue without swingeing rises in yields per seat from 2013/14 levels, the 16 mil is unattainable.

Anyway, can't remember if my season ticket went up in 2014/15, but I can replicate the calculations and update when the 2015 accounts hit the public domain. If anyone has got this far, I doff my cap to you, and if anyone can give me more solid assumptions, then I can amend it.

Coffee, cigarettes, and life required!!!

Just realised, lack of sleep kicked in and there were 2 FA Cup matches that season, QPR and Swansea, so if Swansea were at the rate of say £18 average with 33k in the stadium giving receipts of (31000x18) + (2000x15) (away supporters) = 588,000 then a further reduction of £588/688 or 84p would have to be deducted from the average yield per seat. Hold my head in shame - West Ham!!!

Only other ting is that no adjustment has been made in respect of the Hospitality premium, so I would be confident of saying that that is overstate by about £10 as well. Problem is there are too many variables and uncertainties, but given those constraints best I can do.

Fair play to you for going to that much effort to calculate and write all that text, I didn't read it all but good effort.

Could you please summarise in one easy to read conclusion for those of us who don't have to time / patience to read all your first efforts?

Cheers in advance.
 

A lot of fans come on GOT and TW and claim that BK or the Board are either taking/hiding money ("Where's all the TV money" OR "What's Other Operating Costs?") or are waiting for a big payout from an investor. There is also the claim that he doesn't want to sell his "play thing".
There's also this line about our commercial deals even though a recent ESPN article showed that we have the 7th best shirt/sponsorship deal in the EPL. Most non-Everton fans that I speak to, would agree with the thrust of this article. Under BK we have done better than most, retained our identity, have a very good squad & manager and been best of the rest for the last decade. Trying to break the monopoly of the big money clubs is seen as almost impossible - they are in their own mini-league. So, these generic "Board Out" protests don't get taken seriously.
For me, these arguments take away from the most serious issue (the stadium). That should be the central issue of any protest. Keep it simple and specific.
Finally a man that talks sense.

To all the "board out" people can we just unite on this one issue because even if it's Bill you want gone then the only way you will get rid of him is if the stadium is built.

Frankly I could give a hoot whether it's Bill or some other business man who doesn't have Russian oligarch or Sheikh oil money. In fact given the choice I would prefer Bill. Better the devil you know.
 
I don't think that anybody takes the accusation of money being laundered out of the club seriously. It is a topic that pops up now and then and if you are prepared to use and argument you can find without any basis to lambast the chairman and board then, it is as good as any. The accounts are audited each year by one of the four big audit/accountancy firms worldwide. If you then that something incorrect is happening then you are suggesting that they are not doing their job properly.

I don't think it adds anything to the credibility of the people making the claims.

Unfortunately, I think the truth is that the club is owned and run by paupers(in football ownership terms). The club has been forced to pay it's own way out of the difficulty it was in.
It is the extra tv money which has made us comfortable in recent seasons.

However, in my opinon the new stadium is absolutely vital for the continued development of the club. If it doesn't happen , or at least something major happens like a big redevelopment of Goodison I think in time our position as a big club in the game will slide whereas the building of a new stadium will boost the club and the perception of our club.
 
Fair play to you for going to that much effort to calculate and write all that text, I didn't read it all but good effort.

Could you please summarise in one easy to read conclusion for those of us who don't have to time / patience to read all your first efforts?

Cheers in advance.
My personal take is (if my assumptions are correct) the club needs to increase prices significantly to make a ground sustainable which is pretty much what @the esk said earlier.
If you strip out all cup ties, I reckon the club gets between £19.50 and £20.00 excluding VAT for every seat occupied by every Everton supporter based on 2013/14 data and if that pricing were scaled up to a new ground, then the increase in turnover to service a mortgage would stretch to a £115m loan.
In short, prices up, new investment required and at that point a nrw stadium becomes feasible.
The whole dirge of the posts was trying to explain the workings of a spread sheet and my logic. :coffee:
 
Stadiums were much cheaper to build back then. The price of steel and other factors have shot up in the last 10 years. Due to the Chinese buying steel etc. We really did miss the boat with the Kings Dock. Luckily we didn't get Kirkby though.
The Chinese are not buying that much steel these days.so the cost might not be as much as you would think
 

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