New Everton Stadium

[RobSpurs]

Birkenhead is nearer the city centre, would you suggest putting it there?

I'm not assuming anything regarding transport.... I'm also not inventing public transport that isn't there already. The Northern Line is a great asset but at present it can only move approx 6000 people per hr in both directions. It also doesn't serve the vast majority of the main connurbation, and in anycase Sandhills is actually further from BMD than GP is from Kirkdale. Therefore, in the absence of public transport, how are we all going to get there? The dock road is getting reduced to one lane each way as we speak. Great Howard St is already very busy and is barely served by any buses. So it looks like we're all walking from town which is over 1.5 miles from Liverpool 1, and over 2 miles from Lime St Stn. How are the shuttle busses going to negotiate the few traffic lanes available to move the numbers required?

The council need to get off their arses and get the planning docs onto the website tbh. They've had them over a month now.

 

[mrb85]

Looking at those pictures of just the BR expansion tell you why it would be difficult. The rebuilt stand would be twice the current width, then you'll need at least twice the space that there is outside of the stand now for the extra number of supporters. You are talking at least 80 odd houses and a school. If someone doesn't want to move it will take years to resolve.

What's the kicker though is the Kirkby stand comparison, which is another 50% larger again. It is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and that is before you factor in naming rights and the prime location and the fact that the club needs a fresh start not a 20 odd year project of rebuilding stand by stand and still not be up to modern standards. With that length of time passing by the time you get to the last part you are probably going to be paying the best part of 250 million for the one stand. It doesn't make sense on any level.

The only reason to redevelop Goodison would be if all moves fell through and we had very limited budget. Then the PE could gain a second tier and then the backs of the BR and GS could be closed getting rid of the worst seats in the house and actually with less capacity it wouldn't be as crowded in those areas. Cantilever the roofs of the 3 stands and then most seats in the ground will be unobstructed with a capacity around 40k.

Why would you need to close off the rear of the Bullens and Lower Gwladys? Why also couldn't we build up the Bullens stand as Rangers did with their very similar stand at Ibrox? That way, along with the PE expansion we'd be up to 50,000. Don't know where you get your £250m figure from by the way.

 

[mrb85]

So lets just stay in the [Poor language removed] tip they call Goodison having the shoite on the hill overlooking little old Everton as opposed to moving to a fantastic new stadium that the first thing visiting cruise ships will see is us!!!

GP has had its time now we must move on.

So what? Can't see boat loads of Yanks bursting to get off the cruiseliner to take a look at some peculiar building at BMD. And they certainly won't be going to watch a game -- in fact even if they wanted to they couldn't get a ticket a short notice, the limited capacity at BMD would rule that out.

 

[tommye]

Sorry, i thought it was a discussion forum about the stadium.
I think the fact that I hadn't posted in 10yrs would suggest that i don't just post anything without thinking about it first..... if you're not interested don't read it.... easy!

We're not redeveloping Goodison
Accept this and move on.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

As attractive as it may appear I have to wonder how much revenue a redeveloped Goodison would be capable of generating on non match days , especially in comparison to a new build on BMD.
Given that BMD already regularly hosts significant music events and Everton’s proposed expansive fan zone will, for instance, presumably allow this to continue to the financial benefit the club is one example that I think the Goodison location would struggle to emulate.
It has already been alluded to that the difficulty of obtaining permission to stage large scale events in such a densely populated urban area as Walton on a regular basis would severely limit the ability to increase revenue in this area .
Building a new ground isn’t just about increasing legroom, better toilet facilities and gourmet sausage rolls on match days it is also about building stadia that is capable of working harder at generating revenue all year round not just on match days.
None of the alternative proposals address this aspect sufficiently to be taken seriously, I’m afraid.

 

[sharkey1001]

30 pages about people clinging onto a dream of redeveloping Goodison.

What next, will Landon Donovan ever sign, or is there a way back for Nyarko?

Ship has sailed... on the banks of the royal blue mersey!

 

[mrb85]

As attractive as it may appear I have to wonder how much revenue a redeveloped Goodison would be capable of generating on non match days , especially in comparison to a new build on BMD.
Given that BMD already regularly hosts significant music events and Everton’s proposed expansive fan zone will, for instance, presumably allow this to continue to the financial benefit the club is one example that I think the Goodison location would struggle to emulate.
It has already been alluded to that the difficulty of obtaining permission to stage large scale events in such a densely populated urban area as Walton on a regular basis would severely limit the ability to increase revenue in this area .
Building a new ground isn’t just about increasing legroom, better toilet facilities and gourmet sausage rolls on match days it is also about building stadia that is capable of working harder at generating revenue all year round not just on match days.
None of the alternative proposals address this aspect sufficiently to be taken seriously, I’m afraid.

Nor can we take seriously the possibility that BMD can readily accommodate 52,000 crowds in getting to the stadium in the first place. As Tom has pointed out, the Council is already in the process of reducing vehicle throughput capability right outside the proposed stadium. Shanks's pony will need to be the preferred method. The lack of attention given so far to transport issues is worrying.

 

[wainy]

Why read it or respond.... ? Perhaps you wers less bored than you're saying?

No mate, I enjoyed this thread but you are polluting it with crap from the Goodison for Everton days. We have submitted planning permission on the docks and have shown a vision about what Goodisons legacy can be. We all love Goodison but unfortunately it has no place in the modern game both location and facility wise.

 

[Barca Blue]

Either been in a coma or is a KAGS WUM who has mothballed their account because it’s their year . Show us ye ipads you Asian interbreds.

 

[Tom Hughes]

I can agree with some of your points but for me the ship has now sailed. Some people will move gladly but we only need one or two to drag their feet and it could drag on for years even with CPO.
So if 2 old ladys said they were not moving imagine the bad publicity. Local councillors and residents would take their side. Court proceedings etc. I remember the houses at the park end but wasn't aware of houses on gwladys st being knocked down. If we knocked the stands down to create new bigger stands we would then need new concourse which would require more houses being bought up. All as I have said could take years even with cpo rules.
As much as I love goodison I can't wait for the new stadium now.

I don't disagree about the ship sailing, I am just a bit wary of fait accompli consultation processes that don't offer all the options for informed decision-making. I'd hoped Kirkby had at least taught us that much.

As regards planning issues, ask the people around Edge Lane, Smithdown, Paddington, Dingle, Garston and Kensington and god knows how many other urban development zones. Whole areas have been cleared in recent years.... some despite major protests and even including listed buildings. I'm not saying I'm in agreement with that, just that the powers that be can clear much larger sites than a few end terraces on Muriel and Diana Streets. Look how fast LFC moved once the decision was made.... Only a few years ago the city planners stated that they would be receptive to the view of a joint venture on the Walton Lane triangle. Put it this way, if the club offered say 20-40 houses double their current value, the cost would be less than Siggy's annual income and about 2% of the site prep costs of BMD. If they didn't want to take, no problem, we can move! I think they'd be forming an orderly Queue to sign up.

Gwladys St had houses on both sides for almost the first 50yrs of Goodison Park. The Upper tier was only added after all those houses were demolished in the late 30's. There were also houses on Goodison Rd facing the mainstand/church plus ones on the corner of Spellow. All now long gone.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Why would you need to close off the rear of the Bullens and Lower Gwladys? Why also couldn't we build up the Bullens stand as Rangers did with their very similar stand at Ibrox? That way, along with the PE expansion we'd be up to 50,000. Don't know where you get your £250m figure from by the way.

They are not fit for purpose. If you haven't sat in one of those seats go ahead and tell me afterwards if it was worth the 40 odd quid to watch half a game. If you were redeveloping Goodison then taking those away would be a good start. With the space left from the seats being taken away you could add more concourse space or boxes/lounges. By lowering the capacity of the stand by a couple of thousand there will be more space in the concourses for more food outlets/toilets which in turn is what a more modern stadium provides.

Sticking a tight extension on top does not equate to having a better stadium. It is doing a bodge job. If you clear away enough houses and the school then you may as well build a purpose built stand in its place. If you lose BR and GS stands or radically change how it looks you lose the essence of Goodison and we may as well move.

The 250 million is just pulling a figure out of a hat. Our (albeit small) PE stand cost 2 million in 1994, the SoL 20 million a few years later. The 6,000 seat third tier extension at the Etihad cost 60 million. The hole punch well over 100 million. You tell me what it will cost to replace say the main stand in 2040? You can spend 600 million now or you can keep spending bit by bit over a lot of years and see inflation quickly mean that each bit is more expensive than the last. The bloke who is championing finding what it would cost to stay at Goodison was saying it would be 30 or so million to extend the BR stand. Poppy cock! For a start they would need to sort it so the wood is removed, the pictures show a compact extension which presumably means we wouldn't be tearing down everything behind it, so that means tight working conditions and more cost.

If we stay at Goodison and redevelop it will still cost at least 300 million and you won't get the income coming in all in one go as you would with BMD as when they go through various stages there will be a reduced capacity, further increasing the cost. We won't get a stadium sponsor as it will always be known as Goodison and we won't get the pull of having the stadium front and centre of the city.

 

[Barca Blue]

Birkenhead is nearer the city centre, would you suggest putting it there?

I'm not assuming anything regarding transport.... I'm also not inventing public transport that isn't there already. The Northern Line is a great asset but at present it can only move approx 6000 people per hr in both directions. It also doesn't serve the vast majority of the main connurbation, and in anycase Sandhills is actually further from BMD than GP is from Kirkdale. Therefore, in the absence of public transport, how are we all going to get there? The dock road is getting reduced to one lane each way as we speak. Great Howard St is already very busy and is barely served by any buses. So it looks like we're all walking from town which is over 1.5 miles from Liverpool 1, and over 2 miles from Lime St Stn. How are the shuttle busses going to negotiate the few traffic lanes available to move the numbers required?

Are you not entertained that you are going to win the league

 

[Barca Blue]

I don't disagree about the ship sailing, I am just a bit wary of fait accompli consultation processes that don't offer all the options for informed decision-making. I'd hoped Kirkby had at least taught us that much.

As regards planning issues, ask the people around Edge Lane, Smithdown, Paddington, Dingle, Garston and Kensington and god knows how many other urban development zones. Whole areas have been cleared in recent years.... some despite major protests and even including listed buildings. I'm not saying I'm in agreement with that, just that the powers that be can clear much larger sites than a few end terraces on Muriel and Diana Streets. Look how fast LFC moved once the decision was made.... Only a few years ago the city planners stated that they would be receptive to the view of a joint venture on the Walton Lane triangle. Put it this way, if the club offered say 20-40 houses double their current value, the cost would be less than Siggy's annual income and about 2% of the site prep costs of BMD. If they didn't want to take, no problem, we can move! I think they'd be forming an orderly Queue to sign up.

Gwladys St had houses on both sides for almost the first 50yrs of Goodison Park. The Upper tier was only added after all those houses were demolished in the late 30's. There were also houses on Goodison Rd facing the mainstand/church plus ones on the corner of Spellow. All now long gone.

RAWK FLANKER

 

[The binman chronicles]

RAWK FLANKER

He is definitely not a RS. He has been takling about redeveloping Goodison for decades.

I was a fan of his work but now is the time to let go.

 

[Tom Hughes]

No mate, I enjoyed this thread but you are polluting it with crap from the Goodison for Everton days. We have submitted planning permission on the docks and have shown a vision about what Goodisons legacy can be. We all love Goodison but unfortunately it has no place in the modern game both location and facility wise.

I'm affraid that's where you're wrong yet again and even your sweeping generalisations are innacurate. GFE were nothing to do with me and predated the KEIOC stuff. They had the temerity to commission the people who designed Twickenham in response to PJs earlier desire for Kirkby. Where once again it was proven by experts that GP could be redeveloped. They resubmitted it when Kings Dock was on the table. I actually wanted KD and so I voted for that.... but that was a larger and superior stadium on a far better site with transport in place. So it is you who who is polluting with crap...... how apt so close to a sewage plant?