New Everton Stadium

[ForeverBlue92]

The problem is it is still a working dock. The worst outcome is a protracted legal battle that could end up in the high court, followed by the appeals court.

The Northern docks could become a protected area under the Tories new legislation with other areas deemed to be growth areas. The question would then be why aren't we building our Stadium in a designated growth area. If the first phase contained houses and commercial space it would be much easier to get the Stadium built.

Maybe Peel need to push on with the housing and not rely on Everton to be a catalyst.

Meh im not even worrying mate its guaranteed to go through.

The day heritage England take EFC to the high court and win a battle to keep a derelict site derelict in a post covid world of recession is the day the lunatics run the asylum.

Its just not happening I dont know why people genuinely think they have a leg to stand on.

They are only posturing as they have to - it would be like a mumsnet poster not being offended at a sexist joke - even if they have a secret chuckle at said joke they have to be seen on their forum as being outraged at it infront of their fellow audience.

 

[LEONARD]

Anyone know how much we paid Meiss before he was binned?

 

[toffee66]

It was up to the club to recognise from the off that filling in the dock was a red line that consevation groups would never wear. They thought they could blag it...as per 'kin usual. Now we'll be dragged into a long drawn out inquiry and the moment may be gone for any partners lined up.

It's the same old amateurism we've been used to with these divvies for decades now.

"But, but, but...look at the public consultations lad".

FFS.

I agree that the club could/should have built the stadium to the East of the site to limit this with the docks being repaired and preserved as features within a fan zone to the western river side of the site.

However, I’ve chatted to a couple of folks I know who are much more expert on how this will get reviewed and handled centrally. They think it is 50:50 this does not get recommended to be called in by the reviewing body and 99:1 it gets approved rapidly (3 months) if called in.

Major privately funded infrastructure development in a traditionally hostile Northern City with a chance to stick two fingers up at a supranational bureaucracy (UNESCO) is basically a Johnson/Cummings PR wet dream.

Ironically this delay might be good for the club though they will never say that publicly. The uncertainty of Covid and Brexit makes financiers very cautious. As an accountant & exec of 30+years standing I believe it is an observed reality that financiers and investors generally prefer crystallised risks to unknowns. Being able to take one last look at funding options say Q2 next year when more is known about ‘Covid normal’ and Brexit impacts may well offer a better option than is currently available.

The design changes are largely positive in my view. A delay might well be a similar benefit in disguise. I’m glass half-full on this. Would you care for a sip. Single malts only!

 

[gwladysnight]

What's to stop us upping sticks so to speak and taking the same design of stadium and going to, say, the festival gardens site?

The Stadium's design is compromised by the constraints of the dock. Build a Stadium somewhere else, and we wouldn't have those constraints. The World is changing with much more emphasis on online retailing and less emphasis on vast manufacturing sites. That is going to open up some sites with huge potential in the near future.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

**checks usernames of those wanting the stadium moved elswhere / claiming its not happening**

Ah makes sense now...

 

[gwladysnight]

I think that was challenged because the Secreatry of State did not follow proper procedure, in fact I am sure he admitted as much. Noone can level that charge against this proposal.

It was because the developer the former owner of the Express Richard Desmond was trying to get around the requirement to provide enough affordable housing. It is going to be problematic for a Labour council to approve planning for Bramley Moore Dock without a guarantee regarding affordable housing. The Club needs Peel to stand up and commit to affordable housing.

 

[Leylo]

The government said build build build, they're going through the motions with planning. Jobs housing everything they want perfect for the region .I'm in construction bet tenders will be flying out to subcontractors now or the next few months.

 

[toffee66]

The government does not have the final say though the courts do. The government gave planning permission for the redevelopment of the West Ferry printworks in the isle of dogs but that was overturned in the courts.

UNESCO would probably have to make that call to go to court but I think they are more likely to choose to withdraw or amend heritage status given their prolonged history of battles with LCC. I think the Historic England statement as worded implies they would understand and are almost prepared to be over ruled in this case so I would be surprised if they went to court. That leaves local objectors to fund & sustain a case in the face of massive consultation evidence that they do not have mass public support.

Obviously court proceedings are a risk. In fact they were always a risk whether HE/UNESCO objected or if it gets called in. Far more planning objections get batted away than ever win but nothing is certain. At best it is a risk to timing & costs and one that as davek says might have been avoided with a different approach but we are where we are,

 

[gwladysnight]

**checks usernames of those wanting the stadium moved elswhere / claiming its not happening**

Ah makes sense now...

Except I was just pointing out that the Stadium is a bespoke design that was designed to fit the plot available at Bramley Moore dock.

 

[Magus]

It was because the developer the former owner of the Express Richard Desmond was trying to get around the requirement to provide enough affordable housing. It is going to be problematic for a Labour council to approve planning for Bramley Moore Dock without a guarantee regarding affordable housing. The Club needs Peel to stand up and commit to affordable housing.

Mate, now I know you are wumming. I have spent decades negotiating the provision of affordable housing, mostly under a Labour Council, and they would have no problem jettisoning the affordable housing if they really want the development to proceed.

 

[Gardocki]

“We have also advised that the application should be refused, unless the decision-maker concludes that the public benefits would outweigh the substantial harm to Bramley-Moore dock and the harm to the World Heritage Site which the proposals would cause”

There you have it. They tick their objection box, which is the reason for their existence, and provide an excuse for the permission to be granted. Clearly there is a massive public benefit in granting permission.

 

[davek]

I agree that the club could/should have built the stadium to the East of the site to limit this with the docks being repaired and preserved as features within a fan zone to the western river side of the site.

However, I’ve chatted to a couple of folks I know who are much more expert on how this will get reviewed and handled centrally. They think it is 50:50 this does not get recommended to be called in by the reviewing body and 99:1 it gets approved rapidly (3 months) if called in.

Major privately funded infrastructure development in a traditionally hostile Northern City with a chance to stick two fingers up at a supranational bureaucracy (UNESCO) is basically a Johnson/Cummings PR wet dream.

Ironically this delay might be good for the club though they will never say that publicly. The uncertainty of Covid and Brexit makes financiers very cautious. As an accountant & exec of 30+years standing I believe it is an observed reality that financiers and investors generally prefer crystallised risks to unknowns. Being able to take one last look at funding options say Q2 next year when more is known about ‘Covid normal’ and Brexit impacts may well offer a better option than is currently available.

The design changes are largely positive in my view. A delay might well be a similar benefit in disguise. I’m glass half-full on this. Would you care for a sip. Single malts only!

Politically what is there to gain for the Tories here? Nothing they green light will ever shift a single constituency to within their reach on Merseyside. This isn't Red Wall country. Yes, I'm sure the private sector will have their ear, but there's vested interests around LFC that will also be heard to counterbalance that. As for the delay being fortuitous: can a delay of 3 months be telling in settling nerves for investment in the current economic climate?

 

[gwladysnight]

Mate, now I know you are wumming. I have spent decades negotiating the provision of affordable housing, mostly under a Labour Council, and they would have no problem jettisoning the affordable housing if they really want the development to proceed.

You need to look at the bigger picture. A lot depends on how much the Labour Party wants to discredit Jenrick and Boris Johnson who are both embroiled in the Westferry printworks scandal. It was Tower Hamlets council a Labour council who took the government to court and won.

Is Labour with their commitment to affordable housing willing to let the Tories deregulate planning rules.

 

[BlueDraka]

I believe we are draining and infilling the dock, but preserving the walls. That is why the foundations are rumoured to be costing £100m.

That sounds right. Think we have got above and beyond to keep these organisations happy. I do wonder what the access to the ground will be if we keep the dock road walls. Will everyone just funnel through them

 

[Magus]

You need to look at the bigger picture. A lot depends on how much the Labour Party wants to discredit Jenrick and Boris Johnson who are both embroiled in the Westferry printworks scandal. It was Tower Hamlets council a Labour council who took the government to court and won.

Is Labour with their commitment to affordable housing willing to let the Tories deregulate planning rules.

I am not going to indulge you on this, it is clear to me that you are trying to derail this thread and WUM fellow Blues by trying to muddy the waters with everything you can think of.