New Everton Stadium

[toffee66]

What's your data about no Everton fans in the wirral?

This is either the lamest joke in GoT history or the worst misunderstanding. looking at your past postings I am undecided.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Someone like Historic England can ask the government to call it in, and if it is called in the decision on approval will be in the SoS's hands. But it'll mean delays as it means further reports. And the decision the SoS makes can be appealed in court.

After reading the club's new statement, I'd say the possibility is worth worrying about. It reads to me like the club are worried about the possibility more than they were, say, a year ago. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's what I'm getting from it.

One aspect of our stadium (a compulsory purchase order) was referred to the SoS and it took the best part of 18 months for him to decide. That was an unusually long time (David Lammy suggested it was because Eric Pickles is an Arse*** fan), but it did go in our favour. Basically though, you don't want it called in.

Cheers mate - my understanding of it though is that the Govt only call it in if they deem it 50/50 would I be right in saying?

So if the benefits far outweigh the negatives, the city council, residents, business leaders etc all support it and its just English Heritage kicking up a fuss the government could just tell them to swivel hypothetically?

 

[Onwards Evertonians]

 

[Jacko93]

That makes sense. Did they fill the dock in when the Echo Arena was built, do you know?

They did when they built the 3 graces.

Liverpool one actually led to preservation of the old dock wall. You can see it though the ground portal outside John Lewis. You can visit it as well, if you have the contacts.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Hope our lads on twitter get on that historic england page and let them know how we feel about their pettiness.

 

[toffee66]

As far as I am aware, that is regulations for existing stadia only. If the stand is designed to hold 20k safely, but seating restricts it to 12k, then standing can allow a ration of 1.8:1

Not quite. Any move to safe standing will almost certainly require modified or new legislation to allow a phased response and moves forward or backward depending on how implementation goes. The limits set in that will not automatically assume the 'designed in' uplift for new builds as taking precedent. I had a chance to discuss this with Rosena Allin-Khan (then shadow sports minister) and my North London MP Catherine West last year. They both confirmed that the police position is 1:1 initially in all instances with possible future easing for purpose built sites or redeveloped ones meeting stringent specifications. This is informed not just by safety inside the stadium but also by travel and safety leaving, adverse impact on police resource requirements etc. Rosena, a doctor, believed that medical & ambulance services might well share some if not all of these concerns. They did say other stakeholders would have other views but that given the reasons for all-seater stadium being introduced in the first place they would likely vote for safe-standing personally but only on a cautious, gradual basis providing great weight to safety concerns.

 

[Jacko93]

Not quite. Any move to safe standing will almost certainly require modified or new legislation to allow a phased response and moves forward or backward depending on how implementation goes. The limits set in that will not automatically assume the 'designed in' uplift for new builds as taking precedent. I had a chance to discuss this with Rosena Allin-Khan (then shadow sports minister) and my North London MP Catherine West last year. They both confirmed that the police position is 1:1 initially in all instances with possible future easing for purpose built sites or redeveloped ones meeting stringent specifications. This is informed not just by safety inside the stadium but also by travel and safety leaving, adverse impact on police resource requirements etc. Rosena, a doctor, believed that medical & ambulance services might well share some if not all of these concerns. They did say other stakeholders would have other views but that given the reasons for all-seater stadium being introduced in the first place they would likely vote for safe-standing personally but on;ly on a cautious, gradual basis providing great weight to safety concerns.

This is partly my point thought. For example, we woud never get anything past 1:1 at Goodison, in fact would likely be 0.9:1 or less if it went to standing, but with a new stadium that has purposefully been designed to be under capacity with seating, they will be doing emergency modelling under the potential top capacity. Access and egress will be designed for 62k or whatever, not 52k, transport (which will improve in the future) will be designed t move that number pf people safely. If they sign off the stadium concourses and amenities for ~62k then we only seat 52k in there, then increasing capacity will not be an issue. You cant change that in existing stadia. Spurs, for eg cause its the newest, have squeezed every last cm f space out of it for the NFL, the additional changing etc, that means that the access egress was designed for the maximum seating capacities. They wont go over 1:1, or at least be very close to it. Neither will any other stadia built in the UK.

You'd never get the Gwladys signed off safety wise these days for the number it used to hold. You can hardly move on the concourses as it is and its basically a choice, eat or piss.

 

[radiostar]

Why would we when we want the docks?

Stop listening to RS bull its getting approved - this is just standard procedure they wouldn't know as they have never built their own ground.

I agree I think it will now go ahead.

I wa looking at the new plans yesterday witn the steps and plaza and for the first time I actually thought this will happen.

I don't actually think that this will add nucj time into it either, but then I've always suspected it would take a while to be fully approved. Some were saying it would be done and dusted during lockdown and I got a few negative points for saying I thought it woukd take longer.

As for the festival garden site, I actually think it's an excellent spot and it's certainly in a nicer area than BMD (I used to live in the area a long time ago) - evidently with less problems as the Dock as well. I don't actually think we would be losing much in "prime location" there either to be honest. It's still along the river and the connections are good there - plus it's near the airport for when hoardes of tourists come to the city it would be one of the first things that would be seen.

Me musing over it on a forum isn't going to actually make it happen though.
I was merely curious as to why we couldn't up sticks and take our world class arena anywhere else.

I also get that it's "bespoke" for the area but I actually think that design would look good enough anywhere.

 

[toffee66]

I agree on our designing-in @Jacko93 but it will not matter day one given understandable public service and political caution. I personally think it may take a decade from any reintroduction of safe standing capped 1:1 for any applications to go above this to succeed but maybe if there are literally zero issues in the first couple of years this might accelerate more than I fear. In the Covid world there is now another risk for clubs and medical services to juggle. If we are few years down the road post legislative all clear and with no new big viral outbreaks this will be less of a concern than it clearly would be today but we cannot take that for granted either. Interestingly one thing Rosena said did surprise me which is fan support for safe standing is far from universal with a significant minority of fans, she had spoken to (mainly elderly & young families) worried about a resurgence in hooliganism, particularly given the wider national angry mood.

 

[orly]

Everton FC New Stadium | Historic England

Everton Football Club are proposing to relocate to a newly built stadium, in a new location. Bramley-Moore dock is a candidate.

historicengland.org.uk

Due to the impact of the proposals on a World Heritage Site, which has the highest level of heritage protection and is internationally significant, we think that this application should be determined by the Secretary of State and will ask for it to be called in for his determination. We have also advised that the application should be refused, unless the decision-maker concludes that the public benefits would outweigh the substantial harm to Bramley-Moore dock and the harm to the World Heritage Site which the proposals would cause.

CRUSH the historical reenactment dweebs

 

[orly]

Which Secretary of State is it, DCMS?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I agree I think it will now go ahead.

I wa looking at the new plans yesterday witn the steps and plaza and for the first time I actually thought this will happen.

I don't actually think that this will add nucj time into it either, but then I've always suspected it would take a while to be fully approved. Some were saying it would be done and dusted during lockdown and I got a few negative points for saying I thought it woukd take longer.

As for the festival garden site, I actually think it's an excellent spot and it's certainly in a nicer area than BMD (I used to live in the area a long time ago) - evidently with less problems as the Dock as well. I don't actually think we would be losing much in "prime location" there either to be honest. It's still along the river and the connections are good there - plus it's near the airport for when hoardes of tourists come to the city it would be one of the first things that would be seen.

Me musing over it on a forum isn't going to actually make it happen though.
I was merely curious as to why we couldn't up sticks and take our world class arena anywhere else.

I also get that it's "bespoke" for the area but I actually think that design would look good enough anywhere.

It will go through mate 100%

Gonna be absolutely boss taking my little lad there for the first home game - get a few bars and outlets around the area and it'll be fantastic.

 

[Carloblues]

It even says in the article "unless the positives outweigh the negatives"

It's an unused dock in an absolute dog part of Liverpool, it needs a project like this to change that fact.

This goes ahead 100%

 

[Brisan123]

I agree I think it will now go ahead.

I wa looking at the new plans yesterday witn the steps and plaza and for the first time I actually thought this will happen.

I don't actually think that this will add nucj time into it either, but then I've always suspected it would take a while to be fully approved. Some were saying it would be done and dusted during lockdown and I got a few negative points for saying I thought it woukd take longer.

As for the festival garden site, I actually think it's an excellent spot and it's certainly in a nicer area than BMD (I used to live in the area a long time ago) - evidently with less problems as the Dock as well. I don't actually think we would be losing much in "prime location" there either to be honest. It's still along the river and the connections are good there - plus it's near the airport for when hoardes of tourists come to the city it would be one of the first things that would be seen.

Me musing over it on a forum isn't going to actually make it happen though.
I was merely curious as to why we couldn't up sticks and take our world class arena anywhere else.

I also get that it's "bespoke" for the area but I actually think that design would look good enough anywhere.

But they are all Ipad and Iphone camera waving red scum customers .
Do not want that shower near our stadium

 

[radiostar]

It will go through mate 100%

Gonna be absolutely boss taking my little lad there for the first home game - get a few bars and outlets around the area and it'll be fantastic.

Yep. Exciting to be part of a new generation at the club I have to admit.

How old is your lad?