New Everton Stadium

[muckers]

I don’t get your logic here. Moving the lower tier back further from the pitch makes no sense whatsoever. The only thing that would bring the fans closer would be to bring the upper tier closer to the pitch, but the c-values (is that what they’re called) prevent that being an option.

The cross sections comparing the stands with other grounds showed our upper tier being almost identical to Tottenham’s, and they have overlapping tiers.

With all due respect, I don’t believe Tom is a stadium architect? yet he is disagreeing with people who are paid millions to design stadiums around the world.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I’d tend to go with the experts opinion.

 

[Gardocki]

The only difference between the Spurs design and Dan Meis’ is that the fans at the lower sections are closer in BMD, while the fans in the upper tiers are the same. I know the drawings have changed slightly, but the general design principles haven’t.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Overlapping is the Main stand and Gwladys street at Goodison.

These are examples of taking it too far which then requires supports to prop them up. I think almost the whole of the Principality's middle tier overhangs the lower (something like 14 rows) but least it's cantilevered to not have stanchions. That brings everyone in the upper tier closer to the action which will help the atmosphere.

 

[muckers]

These are examples of taking it too far which then requires supports to prop them up. I think almost the whole of the Principality's middle tier overhangs the lower (something like 14 rows) but least it's cantilevered to not have stanchions. That brings everyone in the upper tier closer to the action which will help the atmosphere.

Except leading stadium architects say overlapping tiers are detrimental to creating an atmosphere.

 

[PhilM]

Except leading stadium architects say overlapping tiers are detrimental to creating an atmosphere.

They’ve obviously never sat in my seat about 3/4 in the Street End or been to the Principality.

 

[muckers]

They’ve obviously never sat in my seat about 3/4 in the Street End or been to the Principality.

Never ceases to amaze me how the layman seems to think he knows better than a specialist with a lifetime of experience.

 

[Kris75]

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It's lots.

As if this man knows what football is!

 

[The binman chronicles]

Except leading stadium architects say overlapping tiers are detrimental to creating an atmosphere.

Like I said it may have a small benefit but like @PhilM wrote above for all the detrimentalness( ) it doesn't appear to make that much difference. As someone who was at the Principality when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2008 I don't think I've ever heard anything as loud.

No overlapping tier stadiums are cheaper and easier to build, which may have also have something to do with it.

 

[PhilM]

Never ceases to amaze me how the layman seems to think he knows better than a specialist with a lifetime of experience.

On many issues yes, but I don’t think you can always ignore a ‘layman’s experiences’, but perhaps that’s because I’m an empiricist at heart.

I have lifetime’s experience of watching Everton home and away alongside visiting many other grounds for football and other sports.

Surely, it’s not all purely academic and binary and depends on multiple factors?

 

[muckers]

Like I said it may have a small benefit but like @PhilM wrote above for all the detrimentalness( ) it doesn't appear to make that much difference. As someone who was at the Principality when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2008 I don't think I've ever heard anything as loud.

No overlapping tier stadiums are cheaper and easier to build, which may have also have something to do with it.

Well when a client asks an architect to create a stadium with the best atmosphere, the expert architects believe not having overlapping tiers is best.

I am inclined to believe the experts.

After all, the stadium with the best atmosphere in Europe - The Westfalenstadion, has no overlapping tiers.

 

[The binman chronicles]

On many issues yes, but I don’t think you can always ignore a ‘layman’s experiences’, but perhaps that’s because I’m an empiricist at heart.

I have lifetime’s experience of watching Everton home and away alongside visiting many other grounds for football and other sports.

Surely, it’s not all purely academic and binary and depends on multiple factors?

Funny how most people deride the atmosphere in these modern stadiums that were designed to make them as loud as possible...nothing to do with the fact you need a pair of binoculars to see and a megaphone to be heard I'm sure.

I am taking it to the extreme of course but to me the distance negates the benefits and I'm not going to go crazy over 0.7 of a decibel. At the end of the day the fans dictate how loud it is and not the building.

 

[Davideeyore]

What stand built in recent years has overhanging tiers?

Spurs stadium doesn’t, the Emirates doesn’t, the Etihad doesn’t, Sunderland’s stadium of light doesn’t, Benfica Stadio Da Luz doesn’t, Liverpool’s hole punch stand doesn’t - neither will the Anfield road end expansion they’re planning, Old Trafford doesn’t, Sporting Lisbon new stadium doesn’t, Valencia’s half built stadium doesn’t, St James Park doesn’t, Stadio Della Roma wouldn’t have had, Juventus new stadium doesn’t. Borrusia Dortmund stadium doesn’t.

I mentioned this a few weeks back. In response to a post an article from Lyndon Lloyd.

Outside no one can deny it's unique. Inside it's unremarkable to me. No overhang or double decker stands. It could also be any ground like Brighton or the revamped White Hart Lane (before demolition). And without the Leitch criss cross, it doesn't distinguish it as 'obviously Everton'.

We could have had overhanging or double decker stands, especially the north stand and the east/west stands. Why not? Is the A/R end at the RS stadium not double decker? What about Chelsea's goal ends? Why not have mock Bullens Road criss cross? Archibald Leitch's design might not be unique but it defo says home.

Home from home. Just a thought.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

The only difference between the Spurs design and Dan Meis’ is that the fans at the lower sections are closer in BMD, while the fans in the upper tiers are the same. I know the drawings have changed slightly, but the general design principles haven’t.

On that particular stand. On others the difference is more notable

 

[Davideeyore]

Never ceases to amaze me how the layman seems to think he knows better than a specialist with a lifetime of experience.

I think you need to put it in perspective. Joking about us knowing more about an architect is all very well, but we are the supporters who know what a football ground is all about; we know our ground was the first ground to have 4 double decker stands, we have a lifetime of experience of that!

 

[The binman chronicles]

Well when a client asks an architect to create a stadium with the best atmosphere, the expert architects believe not having overlapping tiers is best.

I am inclined to believe the experts.

After all, the stadium with the best atmosphere in Europe - The Westfalenstadion, has no overlapping tiers.

See my post above. Pretty much answers most of it. Dortmund have a dirty great big standing area that has 20k fans in it alone, they are also some of the most vocal supporters in Europe. Put them in ANY stadium in the world even WHAM's and they will still make it seem that they have a great atmosphere.

I have never said it doesn't help make it better on a computer model somewhere but we are talking marginal gains, what you can quantify for sure is how the view is for every supporter, see the difference between stadiums that have overlapping tiers?