New Everton Stadium

[muckers]

the loudest crowd ever recorded would’ve been even louder had they had a roof so the architects are correct.

The reason a lot of new stadiums have the wave in the bowl is nothing to do with what you said it is. It’s to allow airflow and light into the stadium.

“so the architect working with the people who have hired them will almost always go for the cheaper option and sweeten the news with but it's better for the crowd, when in reality it's a trade off. Gain here, lose there”

you’ve just completely made that up?

 

[riddick]

I've said it already but worth repeating.

There is nothing sinister about this delay.

The delay will just be because an under resourced team of civil servants have got a mountain of paperwork to go through and probably a load of other work already on their plate.

Their recommendation will then need to go through the internal bureaucracy before being sent to the Minister.

Source: I have worked in Whitehall for a long time, and my partner also works for MHCLG (the relevant Department here).

My point is that the onus for getting this "right" is on the city of Liverpool. If they have looked at everything and done their due diligence on the benefits and drawbacks of the plan and deemed it worthy to get moved on, Westminster should essentially say "this is on you if it goes balls up" which it should be.

 

[The binman chronicles]

the loudest crowd ever recorded would’ve been even louder had they had a roof so the architects are correct.

The reason a lot of new stadiums have the wave in the bowl is nothing to do with what you said it is. It’s to allow airflow and light into the stadium.

“so the architect working with the people who have hired them will almost always go for the cheaper option and sweeten the news with but it's better for the crowd, when in reality it's a trade off. Gain here, lose there”

you’ve just completely made that up?

You haven't got a clue.

 

[muckers]

You haven't got a clue.

You haven’t. You’ve just said the wave in the bowl that a lot of stadiums have is due to spectators being too far otherwise.

You seem to think you know more than the professionals which is just ridiculous.

 

[The binman chronicles]

You haven’t.

You seem to think you know more than the professionals which is just ridiculous.

And you parrot what is said by others without any logical thinking behind it. The generals in the British army should have known better when sending soldiers over the top of the trenches in the first world war but instructed the troops to walk and not run in case they fell.

Digression aside I have continued to agree with what they say (can you take note this time?) but only to a certain point yet you come back with same rubbish. Almost everything in life comes with a trade-off, how many architects build the thing they actualy want to make, it is constrained by budgeting, legislation and other stakeholders input. But no you know best and there is just one way of doing things.

As for the different heights in the corners of the stadiums like the Emirates it is far more to do with optimal viewing distances than 'light and airflow'. I like how you read Wikipedia and thought you have all the answers now! Go educate yourself on it (or you can always get Meis to send you a tweet so you can parrot back) and then come back and join a discussion.

I'll attach something for you just as a starting point.

 

[RobSpurs]

Think you're both right but binman is more right.

Wavy corners are mostly a function of stadiums with an oval footprint. If you've chosen an oval footprint for efficiency reasons, or because it best suits your site, then you will naturally end up with that kind of configuration when building out from a rectangular pitch. The other option would be to start with an oval at the bottom and have an even line, but then you're putting seats miles from the pitch. (I'm pretty sure I'm picturing this right!)

When it comes to bigger stadiums you quickly start getting very close to the maximum recommended viewing distance in the corners, so it also makes more sense to pile more seats in the middle for that reason. This is why West Ham doesn't sell the back corners of its stadium.

Here's our stadium with maximum recommended viewing distance marked with the black line...

Lastly, the fact you have a gap between the back of the seats and the roof means this area can be utilised for light and aeration. But I think this is more of a happy spin-off effect.

 

[muckers]

And you parrot what is said by others without any logical thinking behind it. The generals in the British army should have known better when sending soldiers over the top of the trenches in the first world war but instructed the troops to walk and not run in case they fell.

Digression aside I have continued to agree with what they say (can you take note this time?) but only to a certain point yet you come back with same rubbish. Almost everything in life comes with a trade-off, how many architects build the thing they actualy want to make, it is constrained by budgeting, legislation and other stakeholders input. But no you know best and there is just one way of doing things.

As for the different heights in the corners of the stadiums like the Emirates it is far more to do with optimal viewing distances than 'light and airflow'. I like how you read Wikipedia and thought you have all the answers now! Go educate yourself on it (or you can always get Meis to send you a tweet so you can parrot back) and then come back and join a discussion.

I'll attach something for you just as a starting point.

View attachment 121556

Actually its off The Populous website.

“The upper tier is contoured to leave open space in the corners of the seating bowl. This feature is to allow as much airflow and sunlight to the pitch as possible to ensure a world class playing surface”

Buy I’ve wasted my time bothering with world leading experts, I should just listened to some arrogant no-mark on the GOT forum, who has never worked in stadium design in his life, but knows how to design an intimidating stadium better than people who do it for a living.

Don’t bother replying, your astounding arrogance means this is the last reply you’ll get off me.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Actually its off The Populous website.

“The upper tier is contoured to leave open space in the corners of the seating bowl. This feature is to allow as much airflow and sunlight to the pitch as possible to ensure a world class playing surface”

Buy I’ve wasted my time bothering with world leading experts, I should just listened to some arrogant no-mark on the GOT forum, who has never worked in stadium design in his life, but knows how to design an intimidating stadium better than people who do it for a living.

Don’t bother replying, your astounding arrogance means this is the last reply you’ll get off me.

lol

 

[The_La]

I don't get the delay here. If the city says "we think this is best for the future of Liverpool" unless it's a blatantly wrong or illegal this should just be rubber-stamped and moved on by the government.

Got to factor in how much the government likes/trusts/respects the council.

 

[Stephen Gibson]

I've said it already but worth repeating.

There is nothing sinister about this delay.

The delay will just be because an under resourced team of civil servants have got a mountain of paperwork to go through and probably a load of other work already on their plate.

Their recommendation will then need to go through the internal bureaucracy before being sent to the Minister.

Source: I have worked in Whitehall for a long time, and my partner also works for MHCLG (the relevant Department here).

So would it be treated on a first come first serve basis or be moved up the pile because it's high profile?
As i ask that i would imagine most things that are called in are important or high profile or both.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

That Robert Jenrick is one shady character.
I reckon he’s deffo a kopite slug

 

[kev]

That Robert Jenrick is one shady character.
I reckon he’s deffo a kopite slug

Managed to get planning permission approved for an extension on his 'town house' (in a 'conservation area')

Conservative councillors in Westminster approving an extension to one of his London homes, even though officials had objected three times.

The Times found that Jenrick had applied twice under his own name to have an extra room added to the house as part of wider renovations. A further application was made by his wife. Each time officials refused, saying it would damage the character of the building, which is in conservation area.

But with the third application, made two months after Jenrick was elected as an MP, a Conservative councillor living in the square intervened to request the application be referred to a planning committee, which approved the plans.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Think you're both right but binman is more right.

Wavy corners are mostly a function of stadiums with an oval footprint. If you've chosen an oval footprint for efficiency reasons, or because it best suits your site, then you will naturally end up with that kind of configuration when building out from a rectangular pitch. The other option would be to start with an oval at the bottom and have an even line, but then you're putting seats miles from the pitch. (I'm pretty sure I'm picturing this right!)

When it comes to bigger stadiums you quickly start getting very close to the maximum recommended viewing distance in the corners, so it also makes more sense to pile more seats in the middle for that reason. This is why West Ham doesn't sell the back corners of its stadium.

Here's our stadium with maximum recommended viewing distance marked with the black line...

Lastly, the fact you have a gap between the back of the seats and the roof means this area can be utilised for light and aeration. But I think this is more of a happy spin-off effect.

That's a good picture representing what I meant. I did not know that the distance was so large at your place but when you have the largest end in the country I suppose that is something that can't be helped and you can see why it is shaped how it is to fit inside the maximum.

Strangely enough I struggled to find details on this sort of thing when googling but I know I've seen better documents explaining it in full. The GDPR rules must be binning resources off...

 

[blue1948]

Actually its off The Populous website.

“The upper tier is contoured to leave open space in the corners of the seating bowl. This feature is to allow as much airflow and sunlight to the pitch as possible to ensure a world class playing surface”

Buy I’ve wasted my time bothering with world leading experts, I should just listened to some arrogant no-mark on the GOT forum, who has never worked in stadium design in his life, but knows how to design an intimidating stadium better than people who do it for a living.

Don’t bother replying, your astounding arrogance means this is the last reply you’ll get off me.

That kind of reflected arrogance is what makes a person look a fool when in fact he just might have had a point ,ne'ertheless the time has gone and he seems as bad as he calls the other .

 

[Tom Hughes]

Dan Meis is a millionaire from designing stadiums.

He believes non overlapping tiers are better.

it avoids letter box views, it allows the lower tier to be steep (another universally agreed point amongst stadium architects in creating an intimidating atmosphere) and close to the pitch.

It’s the way to go, no doubt about it.

Meis has used overlapping tiers in several of his designs because there are always other design criteria that need to be fulfilled too, such as maximising capacity for a given footprint, offering various viewing options that range from basic to premium where the premium seating offers significantly higher value (not so easily achieved in single tier arrangements). Overlapping tiers needn't create letterbox views.... however, some Evertonians have enjoyed the intensity of atmosphere under those tiers stands for decades.

Of course, the converse of a steeper lower tier is that the upper tier then becomes lower value because of increased viewing distance. This is what happens when some clubs add new tiers behind existing ones, especially when the old stand is reasonably big. For the most part, these stands would've never been designed like that from scratch.