New Everton Stadium

[Dixieslaces]

Lots of interesting points. Remember when going the match and which part of the ground you went in was a simple choice? If you were young or unemployed/skint you stood up downstairs. If you were working or had a few bob you sat upstairs. Easy! I can remember the first time i sat in the upper Gwladys St (as opposed to standing on the terrace beneath). I couldn't believe that I'd persisted with standing for so long for the sake of another pound or 2. There was a clear improvement in view and relative comfort etc.

The club has tried to gauge the appetite for corporate and corporate lite capacity but I'm not sure if they've got it right. As I said, previously there was an obvious step up between upstairs and downstairs in the double-decker format ..... there appears to be a less clear margin in the new bowl layout with most benefit coming from improved "back of house" lounge space. I agree that the 80s were bleak for the working class but as ever, the middle class in the city weren't doing as bad. I also think we probably had a stronger fanbase in some respects as we still had the older generation who had witnessed the successes and 70k+ attendances of yesteryear. Yes we could've increased costs but what if we're only filling the place because of those bargain seats? What if we're at the optimim price for our capacity? West ham had to reduce their prices to fill their new place.... we can't do that as we're paying for it.

Some interesting points and on the first bit, as a 14-20 year old lad, i loved the hustle, jostling, banter and atmosphere of being stood dead centre in the Gwladys St, was a proper buzz like, feeling the surge as we attack and the noise when we sang etc were all part of that perception of value for me at that time.

As an ageing Toffee now, I still long for that feeling and from what I saw from afar on Sunday, we recreated, and dare I say it exceeded that level of intensity outside and inside that has been missing since seating became the requirement(still wasnt as good as Bayern Semi for me) but I do like a seat now, so my perception of value has changed but my lad says to me regular when we do go, "dont start up with the when I stood in the Gwladys story again Dad!"

We defo need to cater for all sections and maybe we have misjudged our corporate fanbase, I'm sure its way more profitable than a seat in the Street End but i do think our fanbase is made up of that working class majority overall?? but catering to just them doesnt pay the bills as such but then we dont rely so much on gate receipts now as we did back then.

I hope we arent at optimum for our fanbase, but we are entering another period of "tight budgets" within the fanbase so it is a possibility, I always managed to scrape my funds together for a season ticket or an away match and even now for a good few games a season even though the travelling is longer and as expensive but I still do it and so do many of us and I know of many more who would given an increased capacity that BMD brings so lets hope that it brings a new economically sound era for us?

 

[peteblue]

This is what I'm talking about. The club's not a charity but what Catcher is proposing means it's not a "club" either, it would be no different to a broadband supplier, an airline or a supermarket. If the only thing that counts is capturing market share or extracting the most cash possible from the market you have then the "club" aspect of the business is gone and it's just a business like any other and, frankly, the amount of value I am getting from the club as a pure consumer (setting a side being a fan) is basically zero at the moment. If our relationship is purely transactional then what am I getting out of the deal? High quality football? No. Successful cup runs? No. The "product" is crap currently, and yet fans turn up anyway. Why? Because this is not purely about purchasing a ticket for a form of entertainment. It is about belonging to something. It is not the same as going to the cinema or to an amusement park. If you do think it is the same as that, then nobody could complain if traditional fans abandon the club. This is exactly my worry.

That’s a really good point. We put up with all this crap because we love the club and it hurts, really hurts, when it goes badly. However, I do not believe that our club will become a ‘brand’ nor a corporate entertainment centre, I fully get what you are saying but think that you may be worrying too much, as the current near 32,000 season ticket holders will all be transferring to BMD and new season ticket holders will join them…..

 

[Tom Hughes]

As regards transport.... any waterfront site could be problematic for obvious logistical access and egress reasons. At the time of the consultation the club accepted this and stated that they would need to at least reverse the current private to public transport ratio for the BMD site to work. Currently at Goodison it's apparently 60:40 in favour of cars. The bus routes at GP are as or more numerous than at BMD and all are far closer to the stadium (with futher routes on Walton Lane and Queens drive), with many more traffic lanes available in all directions. One of the key prompts for relocating nearer to the city centre was to try to get the majority out of their cars and onto public transport, but BMD is sufficiently far away from town for it not to be considered that central or well served. It's actually only a few hundred yards closer to Lime Street station than Goodison is. The main bus routes on Scotland Rd are almost 1 mile away and Sandhills is no nearer than Kirkdale is to GP (although Sandhills has 50% more trains). So we're essentially looking at flipping the public/private transport usage ratio with less convenient services. I think someone gave the number of buses as approx 40 per hour between Scotland Rd and Great Homer St etc. So that is less than 4k per hr by bus with approx 10-12k per hr at Sandhills (sharing with general public). Of course those figures are much reduced at night. Yes.... there is the often mentioned shuttle bus service too, but we already have that at GP with soccerbus services and they have more alternative traffic lanes to use too. So, for us to get close to their target, those soccerbus shuttles would have to be dramatically increased and have traffic priority to get close to working... otherwise Shank's Pony will be the order of the day for the majority. The relatively short run along the waterfront might at least give a better turnaround time for these shuttles, as long as they can be well segregated from pedestrians and other traffic..... but it's certainly not the kings dock for convenience and public transport. Hopefully the whole Liverpool Waters scheme plus the stadium with prompt a rethink and a new northern line station at Vauxhall and/or its own dedicated people-mover like the trackless tram proposals.

 

[charlie atkins]

Yeah, amenities will appear for the match I'm sure and like you I can walk so I'm better off personally. That walk though will be too far for some even in good weather. I'm also sceptical on the LW project coming to fruition, if it does it will certaily take a decade or more as you say.


They're not going to have a new station. People will be 'coralled' at Sandhills which surely we can do better than in the 21st century. It's a more dangerous station for crowds also as it's an island platform. And there's no chance of a ferry terminal.


Soccerbus's will be, normal routes certainly won't be and that was my point.

I would think by then the area around the stadium will be very busy so more chance of bus routes

 

[Tom Hughes]

I would think by then the area around the stadium will be very busy so more chance of bus routes

Perhaps, but it depends on the level and density of development that takes place. The whole of the south docks has already been redeveloped, but it barely merited any new bus routes at all. That said, Brunswick Station probably fulfills most of that need. If the original Liverpool waters scheme had been realised it would've probably commanded a bigger pull for new infrastructure..... the most recent incarnation seems much watered down in comparison.

 

[paultheblue]

As regards transport.... any waterfront site could be problematic for obvious logistical access and egress reasons. At the time of the consultation the club accepted this and stated that they would need to at least reverse the current private to public transport ratio for the BMD site to work. Currently at Goodison it's apparently 60:40 in favour of cars. The bus routes at GP are as or more numerous than at BMD and all are far closer to the stadium (with futher routes on Walton Lane and Queens drive), with many more traffic lanes available in all directions. One of the key prompts for relocating nearer to the city centre was to try to get the majority out of their cars and onto public transport, but BMD is sufficiently far away from town for it not to be considered that central or well served. It's actually only a few hundred yards closer to Lime Street station than Goodison is. The main bus routes on Scotland Rd are almost 1 mile away and Sandhills is no nearer than Kirkdale is to GP (although Sandhills has 50% more trains). So we're essentially looking at flipping the public/private transport usage ratio with less convenient services. I think someone gave the number of buses as approx 40 per hour between Scotland Rd and Great Homer St etc. So that is less than 4k per hr by bus with approx 10-12k per hr at Sandhills (sharing with general public). Of course those figures are much reduced at night. Yes.... there is the often mentioned shuttle bus service too, but we already have that at GP with soccerbus services and they have more alternative traffic lanes to use too. So, for us to get close to their target, those soccerbus shuttles would have to be dramatically increased and have traffic priority to get close to working... otherwise Shank's Pony will be the order of the day for the majority. The relatively short run along the waterfront might at least give a better turnaround time for these shuttles, as long as they can be well segregated from pedestrians and other traffic..... but it's certainly not the kings dock for convenience and public transport. Hopefully the whole Liverpool Waters scheme plus the stadium with prompt a rethink and a new northern line station at Vauxhall and/or its own dedicated people-mover like the trackless tram proposals.

No need to worry about any of this mate I will have my rickshaw business from town before then .
I am currently in consultation with purple aki who will providing runners with good leg muscles.

 

[Lanolin]

As regards transport.... any waterfront site could be problematic for obvious logistical access and egress reasons. At the time of the consultation the club accepted this and stated that they would need to at least reverse the current private to public transport ratio for the BMD site to work. Currently at Goodison it's apparently 60:40 in favour of cars. The bus routes at GP are as or more numerous than at BMD and all are far closer to the stadium (with futher routes on Walton Lane and Queens drive), with many more traffic lanes available in all directions. One of the key prompts for relocating nearer to the city centre was to try to get the majority out of their cars and onto public transport, but BMD is sufficiently far away from town for it not to be considered that central or well served. It's actually only a few hundred yards closer to Lime Street station than Goodison is. The main bus routes on Scotland Rd are almost 1 mile away and Sandhills is no nearer than Kirkdale is to GP (although Sandhills has 50% more trains). So we're essentially looking at flipping the public/private transport usage ratio with less convenient services. I think someone gave the number of buses as approx 40 per hour between Scotland Rd and Great Homer St etc. So that is less than 4k per hr by bus with approx 10-12k per hr at Sandhills (sharing with general public). Of course those figures are much reduced at night. Yes.... there is the often mentioned shuttle bus service too, but we already have that at GP with soccerbus services and they have more alternative traffic lanes to use too. So, for us to get close to their target, those soccerbus shuttles would have to be dramatically increased and have traffic priority to get close to working... otherwise Shank's Pony will be the order of the day for the majority. The relatively short run along the waterfront might at least give a better turnaround time for these shuttles, as long as they can be well segregated from pedestrians and other traffic..... but it's certainly not the kings dock for convenience and public transport. Hopefully the whole Liverpool Waters scheme plus the stadium with prompt a rethink and a new northern line station at Vauxhall and/or its own dedicated people-mover like the trackless tram proposals.

Obviously it won't be the case for everyone but (purely anecdotally) I think significantly more people will walk from town to BMD than they do to Goodison. It may not be much closer in terms of the actual distance covered but it's a much more straightforward walk, and it certainly 'feels' closer to the centre. If a few bars and places open up on that route for the journey to be broken up a bit then I think there will be a big increase in the amount of people who walk up.

 

[chippy1722]

As regards transport.... any waterfront site could be problematic for obvious logistical access and egress reasons. At the time of the consultation the club accepted this and stated that they would need to at least reverse the current private to public transport ratio for the BMD site to work. Currently at Goodison it's apparently 60:40 in favour of cars. The bus routes at GP are as or more numerous than at BMD and all are far closer to the stadium (with futher routes on Walton Lane and Queens drive), with many more traffic lanes available in all directions. One of the key prompts for relocating nearer to the city centre was to try to get the majority out of their cars and onto public transport, but BMD is sufficiently far away from town for it not to be considered that central or well served. It's actually only a few hundred yards closer to Lime Street station than Goodison is. The main bus routes on Scotland Rd are almost 1 mile away and Sandhills is no nearer than Kirkdale is to GP (although Sandhills has 50% more trains). So we're essentially looking at flipping the public/private transport usage ratio with less convenient services. I think someone gave the number of buses as approx 40 per hour between Scotland Rd and Great Homer St etc. So that is less than 4k per hr by bus with approx 10-12k per hr at Sandhills (sharing with general public). Of course those figures are much reduced at night. Yes.... there is the often mentioned shuttle bus service too, but we already have that at GP with soccerbus services and they have more alternative traffic lanes to use too. So, for us to get close to their target, those soccerbus shuttles would have to be dramatically increased and have traffic priority to get close to working... otherwise Shank's Pony will be the order of the day for the majority. The relatively short run along the waterfront might at least give a better turnaround time for these shuttles, as long as they can be well segregated from pedestrians and other traffic..... but it's certainly not the kings dock for convenience and public transport. Hopefully the whole Liverpool Waters scheme plus the stadium with prompt a rethink and a new northern line station at Vauxhall and/or its own dedicated people-mover like the trackless tram proposals.

Cutting the Dock road in half for a supersize bike lane, wasn’t the greatest timing for the stadium.

 

[John BCN]

No need to worry about any of this mate I will have my rickshaw business from town before then .
I am currently in consultation with purple aki who will providing runners with good leg muscles.

You jest but in Barcelona you can actually get a rickshaw back into town from the Camp Nou.

 

[Toffeeslam]

Does anyone know when the stands will start to go up ?

 

[Dublin blue 75]

Does anyone know when the stands will start to go up ?

Steelwork was originally meant to be late April or beginning of May. Judging by the latest videos, they are almost ready to start that work with the enabling works and anchor points between the four corners nearly all done. Should hopefully start to see frames being fixed later this month then with precast concrete sections to be gradually inserted afterwards.

 

[Glasshalffull]

As regards transport.... any waterfront site could be problematic for obvious logistical access and egress reasons. At the time of the consultation the club accepted this and stated that they would need to at least reverse the current private to public transport ratio for the BMD site to work. Currently at Goodison it's apparently 60:40 in favour of cars. The bus routes at GP are as or more numerous than at BMD and all are far closer to the stadium (with futher routes on Walton Lane and Queens drive), with many more traffic lanes available in all directions. One of the key prompts for relocating nearer to the city centre was to try to get the majority out of their cars and onto public transport, but BMD is sufficiently far away from town for it not to be considered that central or well served. It's actually only a few hundred yards closer to Lime Street station than Goodison is. The main bus routes on Scotland Rd are almost 1 mile away and Sandhills is no nearer than Kirkdale is to GP (although Sandhills has 50% more trains). So we're essentially looking at flipping the public/private transport usage ratio with less convenient services. I think someone gave the number of buses as approx 40 per hour between Scotland Rd and Great Homer St etc. So that is less than 4k per hr by bus with approx 10-12k per hr at Sandhills (sharing with general public). Of course those figures are much reduced at night. Yes.... there is the often mentioned shuttle bus service too, but we already have that at GP with soccerbus services and they have more alternative traffic lanes to use too. So, for us to get close to their target, those soccerbus shuttles would have to be dramatically increased and have traffic priority to get close to working... otherwise Shank's Pony will be the order of the day for the majority. The relatively short run along the waterfront might at least give a better turnaround time for these shuttles, as long as they can be well segregated from pedestrians and other traffic..... but it's certainly not the kings dock for convenience and public transport. Hopefully the whole Liverpool Waters scheme plus the stadium with prompt a rethink and a new northern line station at Vauxhall and/or its own dedicated people-mover like the trackless tram proposals.

You're not a big believer in paragraphs, then, mate.

 

[summerisle]

If the ferries shifted approx 3000 people in the 90 minutes before the match starts that would be good and it's only 6 boat loads. The main problem would be factoring in a constantly changing Premier timetable. You would still have to arrive at the ferry by a lift, taxi, shanks pony or public transport though due to parking. I'd pay a fiver for that.

How about a hovercraft ? Would be quicker ; not unheard of :

 

[dockroad]

Cutting the Dock road in half for a supersize bike lane, wasn’t the greatest timing for the stadium.

It hardly matters. The Dock road in the vicinity of the stadium is going to be closed to most traffic on match days .

 

[degsy]

Any plans to incorporate some of the famous details off the old stands? Or anything that does pay tribute to the old lady? Now that would be great.

One of the old square clocks is still knocking around - Perfect.