New Everton Stadium

[Jacko93]

Where do you get these figures from? I'd like to think they are accurate but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of facts when it comes to safe standing as a way of expanding the capacity.

There is a lot of information from the green guide for stadium design, some of it is collated here.

https://www.emcouncils.gov.uk/write/Green_Guide_-_Wendy_Harnan-Kajzer.pdf

Also, this from SGSA (excerpt from page 17 of link below)

from here https://sgsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SG01-Safe-standing-in-seated-areas.pdf

BMD has been designed so that each row will have 2 seperate steps, effectively allowing a second row behind the initial standing row in a staggered form. Similar to how it is achieved at Dortmund.

 

[Jacko93]

There is a lot of information from the green guide for stadium design, some of it is collated here.

https://www.emcouncils.gov.uk/write/Green_Guide_-_Wendy_Harnan-Kajzer.pdf

Also, this from SGSA (excerpt from page 17 of link below)
View attachment 204997

from here https://sgsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SG01-Safe-standing-in-seated-areas.pdf

BMD has been designed so that each row will have 2 seperate steps, effectively allowing a second row behind the initial standing row in a staggered form. Similar to how it is achieved at Dortmund.

Like this, where one row seated, become two rows standing. As BS states that it is expected that 750mm row depth be for seated stadia, but 350 row depth for standing. The rail seats take up 50mm.

 

[Jacko93]

Like this, where one row seated, become two rows standing. As BS states that it is expected that 750mm row depth be for seated stadia, but 350 row depth for standing. The rail seats take up 50mm.

I have stated on a few occasions that the biggest issue in many cases for safe standing is the capacity of the facilities. You can not seat 60k if you only have amenieties for 50k. Thats why the ground wasnt designed as a 60k stadium, but rather 53k. The stadium will be more intimate as it can, potentially, host a larger number of fans on a smaller terrace. For eg. If you took all the seats of the Gwladys street and made it all standing, you couldn't get any more people in the ground, as you are bound by provision of toilets, food/drink, and access/egress issues. I put together a post on it a while back, with sketches.

 

[Dr Baxter]

There is a lot of information from the green guide for stadium design, some of it is collated here.

https://www.emcouncils.gov.uk/write/Green_Guide_-_Wendy_Harnan-Kajzer.pdf

Also, this from SGSA (excerpt from page 17 of link below)
View attachment 204997

from here https://sgsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SG01-Safe-standing-in-seated-areas.pdf

BMD has been designed so that each row will have 2 seperate steps, effectively allowing a second row behind the initial standing row in a staggered form. Similar to how it is achieved at Dortmund.

It's just that some people have come on here and poo-pooed all of this. Something to do with the steps aren't deep enough. I hope we can expend in this way. Seems ideal.

 

[TrailerTrash]

Everyone in standing gets a complimentary stadium buddy, a pasty, and a can of rola cola.



Job jobbed.

 

[Jacko93]

It's just that some people have come on here and poo-pooed all of this. Something to do with the steps aren't deep enough. I hope we can expend in this way. Seems ideal.

Have they? If they're worried about CValues, the expectation is that standing will be offset, so you look through the gap of the two in front of you. That maintains an acceptable CValue.

 

[Jacko93]

I have stated on a few occasions that the biggest issue in many cases for safe standing is the capacity of the facilities. You can not seat 60k if you only have amenieties for 50k. Thats why the ground wasnt designed as a 60k stadium, but rather 53k. The stadium will be more intimate as it can, potentially, host a larger number of fans on a smaller terrace. For eg. If you took all the seats of the Gwladys street and made it all standing, you couldn't get any more people in the ground, as you are bound by provision of toilets, food/drink, and access/egress issues. I put together a post on it a while back, with sketches.

New Everton Stadium

Looks substantial enough to me for first week or two after

www.grandoldteam.com

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Also different religions have different pray times,

Be because of Sky that won't it?

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Be because of Sky that won't it?

Excellent

 

[Toffeeslam]

I'd like a common sense stand where you can stand and boo reglions because lets all be honest religion needs booing.

Isn’t booing a form of prayer and football stadiums the new churches, mosques, synagogues or temples ?

We all turn up dutifully and sing and praise or boo anyways.

Anyways the stadium is trying to cater for a diverse fan base so I have no problem with that….does stop or hinder me in any way and boy with this team we all should hoping and praying

 

[Toffeeslam]

How many more roof trusses left ?

Clearly the southeast side is still to do so I assume there needs to be another set to span the north and south or will what we have join up with the roof on the east and west stands ?

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Isn’t booing a form of prayer and football stadiums the new churches, mosques, synagogues or temples ?

We all turn up dutifully and sing and praise or boo anyways.

Anyways the stadium is trying to cater for a diverse fan base so I have no problem with that….does stop or hinder me in any way and boy with this team we all should hoping and praying

Fair point

 

[Connor mcloud]

New Everton Stadium

Looks substantial enough to me for first week or two after

www.grandoldteam.com

 

[allen]

Be because of Sky that won't it?

And you won't find out until the Thursday before when you've already bought train tickets and booked the wrong afternoon off work.

 

[maccavennie]

So, I have put together a few images explaining the design of BMD and why they went for a reduced seating capacity.

It is fairly common knowledge now that rail seating will be installed at BMD in a number of areas, up to 3 have been mentioned at some point or other. There was also mention in a number of places about Dortmunds Yellow wall. This reference was less about the size, than it was the strategy. The 'seating' at BMD is designed like this

View attachment 138987

Notice the double step, that allows somebody to stand behind the person in front and maintain a view. That means that we could double the rows in the ground (almost, a person standing takes up more width that a person sitting, ever notice how its more cramped at half time and people spill onto the walkways....)

Many older stadiums have been designed and built under different regs than the new stadiums, such as Spurs, BMD etc, and the regs allowed more people per facility. When the all seater stands were mandated, in all cases the capacity came down, and facility provision per person improved, meaning that every available space could be taken by a seat, regardless of regulations at the time. The result was that concourses were deemed suitable for full seated capacity. There will be no appetite to decrease provision per person as it would now be in direct contravention of current regulations. Hence, old stadiums will not be able to install rail seating beyond 1:1 (with the increased width of a standing person being larger than one seated, it may only be 0.8:1 for standing versus seated, based upon blue book guidance and minimum measurements.)

This image show a concourse designed to balance maximum seating, such as at Spurs.

Spurs was a funny case though as they also gave large parts of their stadium to NFL usage (Massive changing rooms etc. pushing other facilities elsewhere and reducing concourse space. A massive balancing act.

View attachment 138991

Whereas the following two show the design at BMD, over provisioning for the seated arrangement, allowing a capacity to be raised during standing. All within the same boundary constraints

View attachment 138992
View attachment 138993


The images above are based upon a 1.6:1 ratio, purely cause it worked easier on powerpoint.

Superb this @Jacko93 and makes complete sense.

Do you know if this double step was done all around the ground or just in the South stand (lower section) and North stand lower? I'm thinking if it was them 2 sections of the stadium, then that would be an easy 6k extra and taking us to 60k. Anywhere else and then surely (concourse space permitting like you've mentioned) the capacity could go even higher.

I'm also assuming they'd have to agree on this model before the stadium opens. Don't think an 80yo fella would be happy if he's told his seat in the lower south section is standing, but a young lad might want to be put in a standing section.