New Everton Stadium

[trueblue84]

I never had hold of anything to let go of...... and I've never said it applies now at all, (although that might change dramatically if we go into administration as a result of BMD). I've never been against moving per se and happily voted for Kings Dock, actively looked at both central docks and the loop site with KEIOC, so let's desist in misrepresenting anything I've said, or accusing me of obsession (apart from the one I have for our basket case of a club).

I was simply responding to (and always will) these posts that support the notion that GP wasn't possible or would need to cost anything remotely similar to BMD to achieve the same capacity and corporate offer. It is as much a mathematical nonsense now as it was when KEIOC, GFE and others proved it over 20yrs ago. This myth was perpetuated by Kenwright and his cronies because they hadn't the gumption, nor the cash for redevelopment...... and essentially wanted someone else to build us a stadium for nothing, elsewhere. That didn't apply then (just as the false claims regards the safety certificate), and certainly doesn't now, especially when you can afford to blow £150m just on site preps, and your neighbours get to almost 62k for a similar cost.

I'm also trying to look forward to BMD, I'm there regularly watching progress, and was only there a few days ago and watched our Bournemouth match in the namesake pub, as I was unable to go the match..... but it shouldn't need the old, long-since disproven myths to back it up. Especially given our resultant parlous financial state that has seen off the billionaire and threatens to sink us without trace.

Goodison park is a terrible stadium in a terrible location. I'm glad we didn't redevelop it for the simple reason that it would never be as good as a modern, purpose built venue.

The rs can make anfield's stands as ridiculously oversized as they want, but they'll never change the fact that it sits in the middle of one of the most deprived areas of the country. There is nothing of note around it and has poor transport links.

 

[Tom Hughes]

We bought up most of the houses behind the Park End to use for players, so it wasn't a huge deal come the time to knock them down.

They didn't own all of them, and they all had tenants who had to relocate. I agree it wasn't a huge deal, no-one said anything about it at the time..... It wouldn't be now if owners/tenants were fully recompensed. At the cost of the new stadium, they could be very well remunerated, and it would only need a handful of end terraces on the Bullens Rd side to free up enough space!

Thousands of similar houses have been cleared for other developments all over the city. This would've been a drop in the ocean to accommodate one of the biggest institutions in the city, one of the oldest football clubs in the world, on the site of the world's first purpose built football stadium.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Goodison park is a terrible stadium in a terrible location. I'm glad we didn't redevelop it for the simple reason that it would never be as good as a modern, purpose built venue.

The rs can make anfield's stands as ridiculously oversized as they want, but they'll never change the fact that it sits in the middle of one of the most deprived areas of the country. There is nothing of note around it and has poor transport links.

You've got a Nabzy's on Breck Rd to be fair to them.

 

[Dixieslaces]

You've got a Nabzy's on Breck Rd to be fair to them.

A tiny redeeming feature at best!

 

[Tom Hughes]

Goodison park is a terrible stadium in a terrible location. I'm glad we didn't redevelop it for the simple reason that it would never be as good as a modern, purpose built venue.

The rs can make anfield's stands as ridiculously oversized as they want, but they'll never change the fact that it sits in the middle of one of the most deprived areas of the country. There is nothing of note around it and has poor transport links.

I don't overly disagree with your assessment on Anfield, but they'll equally argue that they're preserving their history, not overstretching themselves financially and have still been able to compete on the pitch throughout the process.

By comparison, we're fighting our third relegation battle on the trot, not had a sniff at a trophy, watching abysmal footy and if we're not very careful, might go out of business, largely because of this......?

I'm also a bit anti the comments about Walton. I like the way our stadium grows out of its densely packed community, next to a listed Victorian park, part of one of the world's greatest stadium face-offs. Yes, it's a tired area with deprivation, but I'm not entirely sure how our move necessarily helps that. Let's face it, we're currently building next door to the city's sewage plant, surrounded by acres of semi-dereliction that isn't served by a single bus route. Without the northern line (which only serves 20% of the connurbation) it would be a transport blackhole. Of course relative proximity to the city centre is the real saving grace, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the Kings dock, nor ever will be.

 

[Rich1878]

Hi @Noggsy blue , will you be doing drone footage of Goodison getting dismantled?

 

[McKindrick Blue]

Apologies, I can't find any info on seagull lasers just yet, but tbh can't remember seeing many gulls in Walton.... think the pigeons have got it pretty much boxed off and the urchins have ate all the pigeons at Anfield.

FFS Tom! I thought you'd done your homework?

Seagulls/pigeons , much of a muchness when they've been incinerated by a laser beam. They all count.

When you get around to doing the research, can you check whether the lasers can be blue? (asking for a friend)

 

[trueblue84]

I don't overly disagree with your assessment on Anfield, but they'll equally argue that they're preserving their history, not overstretching themselves financially and have still been able to compete on the pitch throughout the process.

By comparison, we're fighting our third relegation battle on the trot, not had a sniff at a trophy, watching abysmal footy and if we're not very careful, might go out of business, largely because of this......?

I'm also a bit anti the comments about Walton. I like the way our stadium grows out of its densely packed community, next to a listed Victorian park, part of one of the world's greatest stadium face-offs. Yes, it's a tired area with deprivation, but I'm not entirely sure how our move necessarily helps that. Let's face it, we're currently building next door to the city's sewage plant, surrounded by acres of semi-dereliction that isn't served by a single bus route. Without the northern line (which only serves 20% of the connurbation) it would be a transport blackhole. Of course relative proximity to the city centre is the real saving grace, but let's not kid ourselves that this is the Kings dock, nor ever will be.

FSG would have moved away from anfield in a heartbeat if they had the finances to move. They got very lucky with klopp and I suspect they'll be facing some tough questions from their fans once he's gone.

Our relegation struggles are down to poor management of the club, not the stadium. The fact that we can't spend is probably a saving grace, because we were overspending on poor players and getting progressively worse.

I completely agree that kings dock was the real opportunity for Everton, and it was squandered by the odious, fat slug we had clinging on to his train set for dear life. There's no denying that Bramley Moore will be much better for Everton than a redeveloped goodison park, though. You are 15 minutes walk from the UKs most iconic waterfront and there is scope for the area to grow, which it hopefully will with the peel development (I'm actually sceptical that peel will ever actually deliver anything, but there's a good chance they'll sell of the land to those that will). Anfield and goodison will never be anything other than a misty-eyed reminder about the good old days and will, for good or bad, be left behind as the world moves on.

 

[The binman chronicles]

They didn't own all of them, and they all had tenants who had to relocate. I agree it wasn't a huge deal, no-one said anything about it at the time..... It wouldn't be now if owners/tenants were fully recompensed. At the cost of the new stadium, they could be very well remunerated, and it would only need a handful of end terraces on the Bullens Rd side to free up enough space!

Thousands of similar houses have been cleared for other developments all over the city. This would've been a drop in the ocean to accommodate one of the biggest institutions in the city, one of the oldest football clubs in the world, on the site of the world's first purpose built football stadium.

It can be done, but there will be claims and counter claims. Not an inconsiderable amount of money spent paying people before we even get a spade in the ground, so in that respect it isn't much different to what we've done at the docks considering the time element.

You talk of a handful of houses but to do this properly we would have needed much more. We've lived on bodge jobs for years. Any redevelopment would have needed Goodison Road straightening and we are talking about increasing capacity so the road needs to be bigger as it's a bloody nightmare going down any of the roads, with people coming out of the ground as you have traffic going in both directions. So really the Winslow and all those properties need to go and we would need a new wider road built behind that area.

I say this as the BMD changing room is half the size of the widest part of the main stand. To build similar kinds of facilities it needs to be the same size all the way down (we are still compromised as it won't be as big even then).

That's non negotiable to me, once we do that we could have built the new main stand further towards the Park End so it doesn't end before the pitch as it does now and enable a full corner to attach the PE and MS. That will also give the new Gwladys a few more meters footprint, that said unless you keep the height similar to what it is now, we'd need to knock down all the houses on the street otherwise there is going to be right to light issues.

The Bullens is the same width as the club shop in BMD (that includes the unusable interior space right at the front of the stand) it would need to double in width to be at least to almost modern size.

So unless you knock down everything within this messy border I have created it is simply a bodge job that will see us spend a lot of money for something that will be immediately outdated/not fit for purpose as soon as we finish it.

 

[Street end man]

It can be done, but there will be claims and counter claims. Not an inconsiderable amount of money spent paying people before we even get a spade in the ground, so in that respect it isn't much different to what we've done at the docks considering the time element.

You talk of a handful of houses but to do this properly we would have needed much more. We've lived on bodge jobs for years. Any redevelopment would have needed Goodison Road straightening and we are talking about increasing capacity so the road needs to be bigger as it's a bloody nightmare going down any of the roads, with people coming out of the ground as you have traffic going in both directions. So really the Winslow and all those properties need to go and we would need a new wider road built behind that area.

I say this as the BMD changing room is half the size of the widest part of the main stand. To build similar kinds of facilities it needs to be the same size all the way down (we are still compromised as it won't be as big even then).

That's non negotiable to me, once we do that we could have built the new main stand further towards the Park End so it doesn't end before the pitch as it does now and enable a full corner to attach the PE and MS. That will also give the new Gwladys a few more meters footprint, that said unless you keep the height similar to what it is now, we'd need to knock down all the houses on the street otherwise there is going to be right to light issues.

The Bullens is the same width as the club shop in BMD (that includes the unusable interior space right at the front of the stand) it would need to double in width to be at least to almost modern size.

So unless you knock down everything within this messy border I have created it is simply a bodge job that will see us spend a lot of money for something that will be immediately outdated/not fit for purpose as soon as we finish it.

View attachment 251269

With the size of that footprint you've drawn it'll be a semi detatched with the RS lol

 

[The binman chronicles]

With the size of that footprint you've drawn it'll be a semi detatched with the RS lol

That's not the size of the stadium, that will include the wider roads. Just for comparison though here are the three stadiums taken at the same zoom level and you'll see their ground is probably not that far off that size. BM is wider but their's is longer.

 

[Street end man]

That's not the size of the stadium, that will include the wider roads. Just for comparison though here are the three stadiums taken at the same zoom level and you'll see their ground is probably not that far off that size. BM is wider but their's is longer.

View attachment 251278
View attachment 251279
View attachment 251280

Horrible looking thing in that 2nd pic. If you tried to build that in lego it'd tip over sideways lol

 

[Tom Hughes]

It can be done, but there will be claims and counter claims. Not an inconsiderable amount of money spent paying people before we even get a spade in the ground, so in that respect it isn't much different to what we've done at the docks considering the time element.

You talk of a handful of houses but to do this properly we would have needed much more. We've lived on bodge jobs for years. Any redevelopment would have needed Goodison Road straightening and we are talking about increasing capacity so the road needs to be bigger as it's a bloody nightmare going down any of the roads, with people coming out of the ground as you have traffic going in both directions. So really the Winslow and all those properties need to go and we would need a new wider road built behind that area.

I say this as the BMD changing room is half the size of the widest part of the main stand. To build similar kinds of facilities it needs to be the same size all the way down (we are still compromised as it won't be as big even then).

That's non negotiable to me, once we do that we could have built the new main stand further towards the Park End so it doesn't end before the pitch as it does now and enable a full corner to attach the PE and MS. That will also give the new Gwladys a few more meters footprint, that said unless you keep the height similar to what it is now, we'd need to knock down all the houses on the street otherwise there is going to be right to light issues.

The Bullens is the same width as the club shop in BMD (that includes the unusable interior space right at the front of the stand) it would need to double in width to be at least to almost modern size.

So unless you knock down everything within this messy border I have created it is simply a bodge job that will see us spend a lot of money for something that will be immediately outdated/not fit for purpose as soon as we finish it.

View attachment 251269

If proper overlapping tiers are used, you do not need all of that footprint or anything close. Approx 75% of the depth you've identified on the Bullens Rd and Park end sides could readily yield 55-60k on its own. I and at least 3 other architects have shown how in the past, using site plans and sightline modelling software.

Would it have the same symmetry in plan view as BMD? Certainly not during those phases. However, inside it would be tall stands on 3 sides. The money saved could allow for far more boxes and high-end corporate and simultaneously create far less financial pressure to raise General Admission ticket prices too that BMD has. Which could be really telling factor for our fanbase.

LFC have added to a 1906 mainstand (expanded in 1973).... no-one is saying it is outdated.

Goodison Rd would not be a priority, but again if future demands merited further expansion.... to 60-70k. That will be less problematic than on the dock, which the club has already said was tight to model the current capacity in terms of access/egress.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

A tiny redeeming feature at best!

Remember getting a pizza from Nabzy's that was that cold and hard you could have hammer nails in with it.

 

[PhilM]

It can be done, but there will be claims and counter claims. Not an inconsiderable amount of money spent paying people before we even get a spade in the ground, so in that respect it isn't much different to what we've done at the docks considering the time element.

You talk of a handful of houses but to do this properly we would have needed much more. We've lived on bodge jobs for years. Any redevelopment would have needed Goodison Road straightening and we are talking about increasing capacity so the road needs to be bigger as it's a bloody nightmare going down any of the roads, with people coming out of the ground as you have traffic going in both directions. So really the Winslow and all those properties need to go and we would need a new wider road built behind that area.

I say this as the BMD changing room is half the size of the widest part of the main stand. To build similar kinds of facilities it needs to be the same size all the way down (we are still compromised as it won't be as big even then).

That's non negotiable to me, once we do that we could have built the new main stand further towards the Park End so it doesn't end before the pitch as it does now and enable a full corner to attach the PE and MS. That will also give the new Gwladys a few more meters footprint, that said unless you keep the height similar to what it is now, we'd need to knock down all the houses on the street otherwise there is going to be right to light issues.

The Bullens is the same width as the club shop in BMD (that includes the unusable interior space right at the front of the stand) it would need to double in width to be at least to almost modern size.

So unless you knock down everything within this messy border I have created it is simply a bodge job that will see us spend a lot of money for something that will be immediately outdated/not fit for purpose as soon as we finish it.

View attachment 251269

Adequately improving and/or rebuilding Goodison without impacting on Gwladys Street school would be, in my eyes, an incredibly difficult job.

Likely, we'd have had to impede on the school grounds, and with the difficulties in terms of school stock and spaces in this city that would be a huge barrier.

When people say, "Goodison could be improved," they conveniently ignore the practicalities of doing so. It's working footprint rather than the stadium itself.