New Everton Stadium

[Look to the future]

It was always 15k if you counted the corners. You asked about the fact that the upper holds a lot more despite looking a similar size, that is down to the concentric nature of a stadium, each row around the pitch is bigger than the one below it, therefore by the time you get to the top there are a fair few more seats.

You might be right, but I’m thinking if you took the corners away it looks like it would be less than 13k

 

[Tom Hughes]

I'm in the Top Balc, steepest stand in the ground, and nobody stands. Hopefully it's the same in all the stands in the new place.

Yes, it would dangerous and detrimental to view to stand in the Top Balcony throughout a match. Kids would probably need to stand on seats to see the near touch line and assisted or that would be accidents waiting to happen.

It used to be such a simple decision at Goodison. You stood up downstairs (if you were skint) and you satdown upstairs (if you were flush). When the Street end was first seated, people mainly sat down. I think most people probably thought that: "I've paid for a seat, and I'm going to use it" and can remember being urged to sitdown by those behind me, after standing for an incident/corner etc. At some point, standing became the norm, but I still see some sitting towards the front. The only problem with standing, is the Street end was reprofiled for seats, so when people stand, the view worsens as the designed c-value falls significantly. For standing areas, you actually need higher c-values for clear views, because there is a far greater range in standing-heights than seated-heights.... meaning short-arses standing behind giants see little or nothing (which is what happened for me at West Ham haha). At least in the days of terraces, you were free to move around to find that decent speck, perfecting it over years of experimentation. Which was even more important when the Lower Gwladys St held almost 15k as opposed to the meagre 6k or less of nowadays. Of course standing at the side is different to standing behind a goal. Obviously the goals are the main focal points and at least at the sides, you are set a good distance away from them. My dad's old favourite vantage point in the days of terracing was actually the Lower Bullens Area. Much maligned nowadays of course, but tt was a slightly raised shelf of terracing above the paddock which, if you avoided an obstruction gave a good vantage point under cover.

When a lot of new stands were designed at the beginning of the all-seated era, they didn't really take standing into account.... and while they mostly offered great views when everyone was seated, this diminished massively as more fans started to habitually stand, trying to reclaim terrace culture, or counter the stagnant atmosphere etc. If you've ever stood on the Kop at Anfield towards the sides, you'll know that in parts it's no better than the old one for view. You see this at several away grounds where away fans mostly insist on standing. Hopefully a high standing c-value will have been designed into the safe-standing areas at BMD, and not just for when seated. It's a shame that they didn't go for a safe-standing paddock/enclosure on the sides too.

 

[Big Neville Southall]

So only 5000 standing in the South stand lower. I wonder if people in the South stand upper will be unofficially standing as the Lower Gwladys has been for the last few years.

This is my problem with the South Stand.

5000 standing compared to 7000 standing now. That 5000 are nowhere near the roof. So if you have a group of fans starting off a chant they're not going to get any help from the roof to get it loud, meaning atmosphere is down to the team, rather than either/or.

Without the upper standing then it's just half a Blue Wall and what's intimidating about loads of people sitting down in a steep stand? You need the entire South Stand stood as often as possible. You need the fans who start the chants to be as close to the roof as possible.

If the standing was tbe back half then as you often get the front rows standing anyway the whole stand would have been stood far more often. I cannot imagine the upper standing up that much which will restrict the number of times we will get the best atmosphere.

 

[Tom Hughes]

You might be right, but I’m thinking if you took the corners away it looks like it would be less than 13k

In the original renders they really defined the South stand by putting breaks in the bowl in the upper section, which made it really stand out far more prominently. I think a dividing wall on either side, could do similar for the final as-built design. If habitual standing in the upper tier was to ever happen, that partition would become a necessity.

 

[The binman chronicles]

 

[Blue Neon]

Average age of a match going supporter is probably 50 now - people who have had season tickets for years and / or can afford it

Need to make the demographic younger

Am waiting for the ST price hike.

 

[Blue Neon]

South Stand looks amazing! Can't wait to get my seat there.

At any price hike ?

 

[Lee Smith]

Now the big question I am after is how many of those available seats will go to people on the ST waiting list? Hopefully this will be answered some time in December.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the number of new ST’s released to those on the Waiting List for the first season at BMD is kept to a bit of a minimum for the first season or two.

The club likely know that the demand for tickets in the first couple of seasons will be massive, so would probably want to keep as many of the more profitable match-by-match tickets available as possible to begin with.

This would also keep more seat options available for existing STH’s at the beginning of the first couple of seasons, for those wishing to change their spec etc. once they have a better feel for the stadium.

Then a further incremental increase of ST’s could be made available to the Waiting List over the following few seasons, once the original hype has died down a bit.

That’s my guess anyway.

 

[WelshBlue92]

I think the original Bramley Moore documents mentioned a ratio of 1:1.6, but the SGSA Green Guide allows for a ratio of up to 1:1.8 in the lower leagues.

If that ever comes in then the 5k in the Lower South increases to the following;
1:1.6 = 8,000
1:1.8 = 9,000

So quite a step up from the current 5k.
I hope it does happen one day, it’d be fantastic.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Am waiting for the ST price hike.

This was always going to be the case with a complete new build. If we're living in the financial world of quick "returns on investment," all new seats have to pay for themselves asap. For a whole new stadium, every seat is new, and there can be no cross-subsidy from ticket sales in old stands that were paid for years ago. Of course construction costs can usually be offset by sale of the old stadium, but that hasn't been the case for us (Yet). So without the philanthropy of a rich owner and/or massive sponsorship, a price hike was always going to happen.

That said, if (as it seems to be the case) Moshiri is taking the bulk of the stadium debt with him.... and the new owners are essentially getting the stadium for a snip, then provided that the debt of the sale is not fully loaded onto the club and projected increased income from the larger corporate offer is achieved, hopefully those high price increases for general admission will not be needed. We can only live in hope.

 

[The binman chronicles]

This was always going to be the case with a complete new build. If we're living in the financial world of quick "returns on investment," all new seats have to pay for themselves asap. For a whole new stadium, every seat is new, and there can be no cross-subsidy from ticket sales in old stands that were paid for years ago. Of course construction costs can usually be offset by sale of the old stadium, but that hasn't been the case for us (Yet). So without the philanthropy of a rich owner and/or massive sponsorship, a price hike was always going to happen.

That said, if (as it seems to be the case) Moshiri is taking the bulk of the stadium debt with him.... and the new owners are essentially getting the stadium for a snip, then provided that the debt of the sale is not fully loaded onto the club and projected increased income from the larger corporate offer is achieved, hopefully those high price increases for general admission will not be needed. We can only live in hope.

The increases will come regardless. We can't moan about the football if we're only allowed to spend what we earn, yet we expect to pay £40 per game, when our rivals with bigger stadiums (& less season tickets) charge nearly double that.

At Goodison we always had 'we haven't got the facilities that others have to charge that', once that excuse goes we will realign from one of the cheaper PL tickets to perhaps where we see ourselves, a bit under that top section, plus outliers like Fulham with big London prices tacked on.

As the on pitch stuff is in disarray I can't see them doing it all on day one, but there will be an initial hefty rise, followed by a couple of above inflation increases in the first few years. I expect them to squeeze at least 25% on top of what is being charged now.

 

[The binman chronicles]

 

[Tom Hughes]

The increases will come regardless. We can't moan about the football if we're only allowed to spend what we earn, yet we expect to pay £40 per game, when our rivals with bigger stadiums (& less season tickets) charge nearly double that.

At Goodison we always had 'we haven't got the facilities that others have to charge that', once that excuse goes we will realign from one of the cheaper PL tickets to perhaps where we see ourselves, a bit under that top section, plus outliers like Fulham with big London prices tacked on.

As the on pitch stuff is in disarray I can't see them doing it all on day one, but there will be an initial hefty rise, followed by a couple of above inflation increases in the first few years. I expect them to squeeze at least 25% on top of what is being charged now.

Perhaps, but there is a limit to that process and a lot of fans struggle at current prices (which have already been sneaking up in recent years). Other large clubs building whole new stadia incorporated much higher numbers of corporate boxes to help really offset construction costs and produce a step-change increase in matchday income. We haven't really done that and much of the hospitality is corporate lite packages. The club will be hoping that the new-stadium-effect will boost demand further, but I am not sure what the price elasticity of that general admission demand is for our fanbase, and if you're not careful you can price people out.

 

[SLAVEN BILIC]

Perhaps, but there is a limit to that process and a lot of fans struggle at current prices (which have already been sneaking up in recent years). Other large clubs building whole new stadia incorporated much higher numbers of corporate boxes to help really offset construction costs and produce a step-change increase in matchday income. We haven't really done that and much of the hospitality is corporate lite packages. The club will be hoping that the new-stadium-effect will boost demand further, but I am not sure what the price elasticity of that general admission demand is for our fanbase, and if you're not careful you can price people out.

I’ve got just over £1300 saved to go towards 3 season tickets.

1 adult
1 junior
1 student

I honestly don’t think it’ll be enough. It’s all moot if I don’t get off the waiting list this time around.

 

[BullensRoad]

This was always going to be the case with a complete new build. If we're living in the financial world of quick "returns on investment," all new seats have to pay for themselves asap. For a whole new stadium, every seat is new, and there can be no cross-subsidy from ticket sales in old stands that were paid for years ago. Of course construction costs can usually be offset by sale of the old stadium, but that hasn't been the case for us (Yet). So without the philanthropy of a rich owner and/or massive sponsorship, a price hike was always going to happen.

That said, if (as it seems to be the case) Moshiri is taking the bulk of the stadium debt with him.... and the new owners are essentially getting the stadium for a snip, then provided that the debt of the sale is not fully loaded onto the club and projected increased income from the larger corporate offer is achieved, hopefully those high price increases for general admission will not be needed. We can only live in hope.

I agree Tom, can't thank Moshiri enough for this, the stadium of our dreams is weeks away from being completed.

Absorbing the stadium debt is incredible, even that Mikey guy with the unhealthy perception of our club ownership agrees.