New Everton Stadium

[Noggsy blue]

Yes, it would dangerous and detrimental to view to stand in the Top Balcony throughout a match. Kids would probably need to stand on seats to see the near touch line and assisted or that would be accidents waiting to happen.

It used to be such a simple decision at Goodison. You stood up downstairs (if you were skint) and you satdown upstairs (if you were flush). When the Street end was first seated, people mainly sat down. I think most people probably thought that: "I've paid for a seat, and I'm going to use it" and can remember being urged to sitdown by those behind me, after standing for an incident/corner etc. At some point, standing became the norm, but I still see some sitting towards the front. The only problem with standing, is the Street end was reprofiled for seats, so when people stand, the view worsens as the designed c-value falls significantly. For standing areas, you actually need higher c-values for clear views, because there is a far greater range in standing-heights than seated-heights.... meaning short-arses standing behind giants see little or nothing (which is what happened for me at West Ham haha). At least in the days of terraces, you were free to move around to find that decent speck, perfecting it over years of experimentation. Which was even more important when the Lower Gwladys St held almost 15k as opposed to the meagre 6k or less of nowadays. Of course standing at the side is different to standing behind a goal. Obviously the goals are the main focal points and at least at the sides, you are set a good distance away from them. My dad's old favourite vantage point in the days of terracing was actually the Lower Bullens Area. Much maligned nowadays of course, but tt was a slightly raised shelf of terracing above the paddock which, if you avoided an obstruction gave a good vantage point under cover.

When a lot of new stands were designed at the beginning of the all-seated era, they didn't really take standing into account.... and while they mostly offered great views when everyone was seated, this diminished massively as more fans started to habitually stand, trying to reclaim terrace culture, or counter the stagnant atmosphere etc. If you've ever stood on the Kop at Anfield towards the sides, you'll know that in parts it's no better than the old one for view. You see this at several away grounds where away fans mostly insist on standing. Hopefully a high standing c-value will have been designed into the safe-standing areas at BMD, and not just for when seated. It's a shame that they didn't go for a safe-standing paddock/enclosure on the sides too.

When the stadium design was initially presented and the plans of safe standing was going to be an option, I toyed with the idea of revisiting them days of old.
Then my head told my heart to stop being a dick and act my age. Nice thoughts while it lasted

 

[Blue Neon]

The increases will come regardless. We can't moan about the football if we're only allowed to spend what we earn, yet we expect to pay £40 per game, when our rivals with bigger stadiums (& less season tickets) charge nearly double that.

At Goodison we always had 'we haven't got the facilities that others have to charge that', once that excuse goes we will realign from one of the cheaper PL tickets to perhaps where we see ourselves, a bit under that top section, plus outliers like Fulham with big London prices tacked on.

As the on pitch stuff is in disarray I can't see them doing it all on day one, but there will be an initial hefty rise, followed by a couple of above inflation increases in the first few years. I expect them to squeeze at least 25% on top of what is being charged now.

This was always going to be the case with a complete new build. If we're living in the financial world of quick "returns on investment," all new seats have to pay for themselves asap. For a whole new stadium, every seat is new, and there can be no cross-subsidy from ticket sales in old stands that were paid for years ago. Of course construction costs can usually be offset by sale of the old stadium, but that hasn't been the case for us (Yet). So without the philanthropy of a rich owner and/or massive sponsorship, a price hike was always going to happen.

That said, if (as it seems to be the case) Moshiri is taking the bulk of the stadium debt with him.... and the new owners are essentially getting the stadium for a snip, then provided that the debt of the sale is not fully loaded onto the club and projected increased income from the larger corporate offer is achieved, hopefully those high price increases for general admission will not be needed. We can only live in hope.

I'm thinking new prices will be mirrored from across the park.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I'm thinking new prices will be mirrored from across the park.

Should be less, due to their comparative success and more tourist support.

 

[charlie atkins]

I used to get annoyed people saying will be the best ground in the championship,
Not so sure now

 

[goldfinchmule]

I used to get annoyed people saying will be the best ground in the championship,
Not so sure now

Oh come on..ours is loads better than derby,sunderland and boro,s

 

[The binman chronicles]

but I am not sure what the price elasticity of that general admission demand is for our fanbase, and if you're not careful you can price people out.

I think most clubs appear to be happy to price people out, especially phasing out the older demographic before they get to concession age. The game has well and truly moved from its working class background, with the atmosphere suffering through gentrification.

There is always someone else that will take your seat if you can't/don't want to pay. Obviously there are limits to that. I don't think anyone would pay £90 to watch what was served up today, but speaking in GA terms an increase from £55 to £63 (around 15%) will probably be likely and with American owners the philanthropic days are gone and they will look to test that demand within the fanbase to find the upper limits.

 

[Richie]

This is my problem with the South Stand.

5000 standing compared to 7000 standing now. That 5000 are nowhere near the roof. So if you have a group of fans starting off a chant they're not going to get any help from the roof to get it loud, meaning atmosphere is down to the team, rather than either/or.

Without the upper standing then it's just half a Blue Wall and what's intimidating about loads of people sitting down in a steep stand? You need the entire South Stand stood as often as possible. You need the fans who start the chants to be as close to the roof as possible.

If the standing was tbe back half then as you often get the front rows standing anyway the whole stand would have been stood far more often. I cannot imagine the upper standing up that much which will restrict the number of times we will get the best atmosphere.

I’d imagine the demand for standing is much greater than the 5000 on offer. My tenure is 17 years so I doubt I’ll get a ST in the lower South. I’m hoping many, like myself, who will end up in the upper South will be standing. Like you say, we need the entire blue wall on it’s feet to generate the best atmosphere.

 

[Timbucktoo]

I’d imagine the demand for standing is much greater than the 5000 on offer. My tenure is 17 years so I doubt I’ll get a ST in the lower South. I’m hoping many, like myself, who will end up in the upper South will be standing. Like you say, we need the entire blue wall on it’s feet to generate the best atmosphere.

So long as we don`t have a fella belting a drum and a couple of huge flags waving throughout the game. This seems to be a thing up in Scotland and it adds nothing to the atmosphere.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I’d imagine the demand for standing is much greater than the 5000 on offer. My tenure is 17 years so I doubt I’ll get a ST in the lower South. I’m hoping many, like myself, who will end up in the upper South will be standing. Like you say, we need the entire blue wall on it’s feet to generate the best atmosphere.

Unless they install the safe standing rails, no one is standing up the whole game in the upper. Too much potential energy knocking around.

When we score (rare occurrence I know) it's common to have people coming down a few rows in the street end and that's just a shallow incline, now scale that to 34 degrees and they'll end up on the pitch...

In Munich, the Allianz has low level rails in the upper tier (well the bit I was in anyhow) and you would need those at least before trying to promote standing in the upper.

 

[The binman chronicles]

 

[Blue peter]

I'm thinking new prices will be mirrored from across the park.

I’m not sure it will be….they have a lot more walk up demand. One of the girls I used to work with who had a second job at Anfield said that one tour operator had about 20% of the seats which they arranged for tourists, don’t know how true (the % was) but that would make sense. Then there’s the shops sales to day tourists, which locals / ST holders are less likely to visit as regularly.

 

[Tom Hughes]

I think most clubs appear to be happy to price people out, especially phasing out the older demographic before they get to concession age. The game has well and truly moved from its working class background, with the atmosphere suffering through gentrification.

There is always someone else that will take your seat if you can't/don't want to pay. Obviously there are limits to that. I don't think anyone would pay £90 to watch what was served up today, but speaking in GA terms an increase from £55 to £63 (around 15%) will probably be likely and with American owners the philanthropic days are gone and they will look to test that demand within the fanbase to find the upper limits.

But what if we're already at, or near our price ceiling, and all the available juice has already been squeezed? We will also have a 33% increase in capacity to fill at BMD. Increased supply AND increased prices can be awkward to pull off, although I realise footy doesn't always obey the basic economic laws of supply and demand. I think they need to be careful, because waiting lists built on a restricted capacity and low ticket prices at GP, may quickly evaporate if they push that pricing-envelope too far.

I remember reading an article about us having 31k season ticket holders and a roughly similar number on the waiting list a few weeks ago, with the writer claiming 53k was far too small etc. Only a day or two later we played Southampton in the League Cup (possibly the last ever cup game at GP), and there were only 33k there, after they'd raised the tkt price to £25, just a £5 increase on the previous round. Yes, midweek league cup games, for a team in poor form, are not necessarily the best barometer of demand. However 5k+ empty seats might suggest that claims of a collective demand of 60k+, might be more fragile than merely stating waiting list stats.

 

[arch stanton]

When the stadium design was initially presented and the plans of safe standing was going to be an option, I toyed with the idea of revisiting them days of old.
Then my head told my heart to stop being a [Poor language removed] and act my age. Nice thoughts while it lasted

thought the same mate, but add in that I often walk an 8 1/2 mile round trip from home to station, lime street to the ground and return, throw in a 90 minute stand and its too much for these old legs. South stand upper for me if I can

 

[The binman chronicles]

But what if we're already at, or near our price ceiling, and all the available juice has already been squeezed? We will also have a 33% increase in capacity to fill at BMD. Increased supply AND increased prices can be awkward to pull off, although I realise footy doesn't always obey the basic economic laws of supply and demand. I think they need to be careful, because waiting lists built on a restricted capacity and low ticket prices at GP, may quickly evaporate if they push that pricing-envelope too far.

I remember reading an article about us having 31k season ticket holders and a roughly similar number on the waiting list a few weeks ago, with the writer claiming 53k was far too small etc. Only a day or two later we played Southampton in the League Cup (possibly the last ever cup game at GP), and there were only 33k there, after they'd raised the tkt price to £25, just a £5 increase on the previous round. Yes, midweek league cup games, for a team in poor form, are not necessarily the best barometer of demand. However 5k+ empty seats might suggest that claims of a collective demand of 60k+, might be more fragile than merely stating waiting list stats.

It could be at that point, but this first season demand will outstrip supply. For a ST holder are you going to miss out just because it is a hundred quid more (less than £5 increase a game)?

Now it may not be that high a rise, but it's easier to lean on that big selling point and throttle back afterwards (half ST and alike at discounted rates). As I say they will test the limit wherever they can.

 

[Cake]

It will be difficult for people to control their excitement and break the habit of banging their feet on the wooden floor when we get a corner.