Roberto Martinez discussion

[bluewally]

His track record with us is 5th in the first season, 11th in his second.

Third season not finished yet.

Wigan and Swansea were totally different entities to us.

His issues were the same with Wigan

 

[willo30]

I do think Stubbsy would have been great and he was a help in the first season. But then again, Lawrence oversaw that season so he can't be entirely to blame...

Well I think you have just agreed with me there. With a more qualified coach helping there he did better. To blame him entirely would be unfair if his limitations don't stretch this far. This has to be down to the manager to see this.

 

[whiteshadow]

What is it with these specialist coaches? And why a former club player?

It's a load o' shoite. Jobs for the boys. Howard Kendall never had none of that and the game hasn't changed that dramatically.

A manager should be able to deal with all aspects of coaching. If he can't, and has to delegate, then he's unworthy imo.

Didn't Alex Ferguson delegate all training to his coaching team?

 

[bluewally]

Fair enough that's your opinion. We can agree to disagree on that and it'd be pointless if everyone thought the same way anyway.

The fact does remain though that ultimately he isn't getting sacked anytime soon, whether people think he should be or not.

And it's quite clear that Martinez has ambitions to be more than 'mid-table' mate. And again, I go back to the last seven games just to show an example of how he's obviously looked to get more of a balance back between defence and attack...

Seven conceded. Twelve scored. Three clean sheets.

Not saying it's brilliant, but it's certainly an improvement and shows that your theory of 'he isn't willing to change' is based on something that at the moment at least is being proven to be false...

Again, you seem obsessed with who we have to beat in a cup. You only win a cup with a bit of luck in the draw. Look at Arsenal for the last two years...

Obviously if we didnt disagree it would be boring as

I don't think the boards unwillingness to sack underperforming managers is a badge of honour

I know his ambitions, it's his ability I doubt

Last 7 league games. Scored 11, conceded 7, 9 points from 21

That's an improvement?

I'm not obsessed I haven't mentioned the league cup run before but I think when you're consistently using our 2 "cup runs" as a measure of success you have to take into account the quality of the opposition.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Didn't Alex Ferguson delegate all training to his coaching team?

Are we talking about ferguson or martinez here?

Besides, ferguson won things long before all these specialist coaches came into the equation. Harry Catterick wasn't a tracksuit manager if you want to go down that route. Don't remember him having specialist coaches, neither.

 

[BlueToff]

Obviously if we didnt disagree it would be boring as

I don't think the boards unwillingness to sack underperforming managers is a badge of honour

I know his ambitions, it's his ability I doubt

Last 7 league games. Scored 11, conceded 7, 9 points from 21

That's an improvement?

I'm not obsessed I haven't mentioned the league cup run before but I think when you're consistently using our 2 "cup runs" as a measure of success you have to take into account the quality of the opposition.

A cup run is a cup run to me mate? Arsenal only had to beat dross last year to win all the way through pretty much - it doesn't take anything away from that.

Obviously we haven't won or got to a final yet and Chelsea will be a real test, but I couldn't care less if we drew all Lg 2 sides in a competition to be perfectly honest.

No, you said that 'he's a good fit for a team happy with mid-table'. I pointed out that that just isn't the case. He's ambitious and has signalled his intent by building one of the best squads we've had in years, and a squad that has to take half of the blame for this season not going as well as it could have.

And compare it to the seven games prior to xmas. 13 goals conceded 12 scored 7 points.

So, only two points better off, yes, but the main stat that Martinez is bashed with his reluctance to change and be more defensive.

The last seven games clearly show he has been.

 

[BlueToff]

Well I think you have just agreed with me there. With a more qualified coach helping there he did better. To blame him entirely would be unfair if his limitations don't stretch this far. This has to be down to the manager to see this.

I've said many times mate that i'd like RM to look to bring in a defensive coach. The summer is now the time to do that though.

We've looked more solid in the last several league games since the turn of the year and that is backed up by the amount of goals conceded (which I know I keep banging on about).

It also is no coincidence that it has coincided with the return of Jagielka and (more belatedly) McCarthy - while Besic had filled in there against Spurs, City and Chelsea and done brilliantly. Howard finally being dropped (or being injured therefore giving RM an easy choice) has also helped greatly.

 

[whiteshadow]

We're in 11th and only 6 points off Europe and have scored only 2 less goals than the highest scoring teams. Our goal difference suggests we should really be competing for 6th or 7th place.

I get why people have some concerns over RM's. I have some myself but he's using young players who aren't finished articles and trying to get us playing expansive football, which is only normally the preserve of the mega rich clubs who can buy top quality, experienced players off the bat.

I just don't get why people are so impatient. The new TV money will make all the teams around us more competitive over the coming seasons, we're going to have to get used to fighting in a more competitive league. We've got a manager who's great at buying in and developing talent and getting our team scoring goals.

All he has to do is sort the balance between defence\attack and we'll shoot up the table. I'd totally get it if we were fighting to stay up but we're not.

 

[bluewally]

No, you said that 'he's a good fit for a team happy with mid-table'. I pointed out that that just isn't the case. He's ambitious and has signalled his intent by building one of the best squads we've had in years, and a squad that has to take half of the blame for this season not going as well as it could have.

And compare it to the seven games prior to xmas. 13 goals conceded 12 scored 7 points.

So, only two points better off, yes, but the main stat that Martinez is bashed with his reluctance to change and be more defensive.

The last seven games clearly show he has been.

I don't deny saying that, I also said have no doubt about his ambition, I have doubts about his ability.

2 points better off but we keep hearing how much we've improved. Ok.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't deny saying that, I also said have no doubt about his ambition, I have doubts about his ability.

2 points better off but we keep hearing how much we've improved. Ok.

No, again, I say we have turned a corner defensively, which we have - and that is in response to the claims that Martinez can't change and can't defend. The stats suggest otherwise and the return of key players from injury and the form of Joel and Mori and Oviedo and the like has helped that greatly.

The results still haven't been good enough yet we have created lots of chances as well in the games we haven't won... which is why the players must also shoulder responsibility, just as they get the praise when we play well.

 

[willo30]

I've said many times mate that i'd like RM to look to bring in a defensive coach. The summer is now the time to do that though.

We've looked more solid in the last several league games since the turn of the year and that is backed up by the amount of goals conceded (which I know I keep banging on about).

It also is no coincidence that it has coincided with the return of Jagielka and (more belatedly) McCarthy - while Besic had filled in there against Spurs, City and Chelsea and done brilliantly. Howard finally being dropped (or being injured therefore giving RM an easy choice) has also helped greatly.

To be fair yes you do. I think it's dangerous to think just because we have conceded a few less goals recently that it's getting better. Our marking at set pieces is still shocking at times for example.
Agree the summer would be the time to change it but my concern is that Martinez doesn't see it as a concern. He has gone on record saying he is not concerned about conceding which I find baffling. Surely anyone would strive to be the best they can be and making some simple changes could help a great deal. Not sure if it's because he's a mate or if he really thinks that it will all come good in the end. It's a hell of a gamble hoping it's going to come good in the end with the way the game changes so quickly nowadays.

 

[bluewally]

No, again, I say we have turned a corner defensively, which we have - and that is in response to the claims that Martinez can't change and can't defend. The stats suggest otherwise and the return of key players from injury and the form of Joel and Mori and Oviedo and the like has helped that greatly.

The results still haven't been good enough yet we have created lots of chances as well in the games we haven't won... which is why the players must also shoulder responsibility, just as they get the praise when we play well.

I think it's a bit too early to say we have turned the corner defensively. It's barely a month since we shipped 8 goals in 3 games.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I'm so confident about our defense I'm putting a tenner on us not to concede this weekend

 

[bluewally]

I'm so confident about our defense I'm putting a tenner on us not to concede this weekend

Will you do it in a double with next weekend?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

We're in 11th and only 6 points off Europe and have scored only 2 less goals than the highest scoring teams. Our goal difference suggests we should really be competing for 6th or 7th place.

I get why people have some concerns over RM's. I have some myself but he's using young players who aren't finished articles and trying to get us playing expansive football, which is only normally the preserve of the mega rich clubs who can buy top quality, experienced players off the bat.

I just don't get why people are so impatient. The new TV money will make all the teams around us more competitive over the coming seasons, we're going to have to get used to fighting in a more competitive league. We've got a manager who's great at buying in and developing talent and getting our team scoring goals.

All he has to do is sort the balance between defence\attack and we'll shoot up the table. I'd totally get it if we were fighting to stay up but we're not.

The archetypal 'jam tomorrow' post. A mid-table indifference post, judging by that last sentence.

Martinez has had two full seasons (And best part of a third) , so have the majority of these young players (Barkley, Stones & Lukaku) - and the inconsistency is still very apparent. People harp on about leicester not being able to keep their form going, but at least they've put a consistent run together for months on end...And with their squad?!

When was the last time we won three on the bounce in the league? It's really not that hard to do in this so-called 'more competitive than ever' league. To not manage that for as long as martinez has (Since April 2014 - so nearly two full seasons) is totally unacceptable.