2024/25 Sean Dyche

[Street end man]

If you’re a u18 or u21 player this club is that last place you would want to be, whilst this fella is in charge of team selection.

I’d be asking for a move away if I was in our academy set up, as there’s little to no chance you will get a game or the chance to learn.

Especially if you are the only one on the books available to play in that position.

 

[Street end man]

I've never felt more like Devil's Advocate as I do right now, but that's not true at all mate. Just because we have a young right back on the books does not make him better than Holgate.

Holgate is terrible, granted, none of us want him in the team but equally none of us know what Dixon is like. He could easily be worse currently than Holgate is. To suggest otherwise is a classic "magic beans" argument.

The unknown is not always better than a known negative, in fact it often isn't.

It's depressing, but there's every chance in the world that the best option open to Dyche this weekend is Holgate at right back. The ire should be directed towards why that's potentially the case rather than fury at the manager not picking a lad who none of us know anything about as far as how he performs in training etc

Agree to a large extent mate and thanks for the politeness whilst debating. However nobody knows how any player will perform at this level until they are given the chance, and approaching 20 years of age next Saturday has to be his chance. Why play someone who by rights should not even be here over a genuine right back. It does not make sense to me.

 

[JohnRoss23]

I've never felt more like Devil's Advocate as I do right now, but that's not true at all mate. Just because we have a young right back on the books does not make him better than Holgate.

Holgate is terrible, granted, none of us want him in the team but equally none of us know what Dixon is like. He could easily be worse currently than Holgate is. To suggest otherwise is a classic "magic beans" argument.

The unknown is not always better than a known negative, in fact it often isn't.

It's depressing, but there's every chance in the world that the best option open to Dyche this weekend is Holgate at right back. The ire should be directed towards why that's potentially the case rather than fury at the manager not picking a lad who none of us know anything about as far as how he performs in training etc

You aren't winning anything with Holgate starting at RB and seeing the pitch. Very well could be the same with Dixon. But Holgate has proven time and time again that he does not belong anywhere near a Premier League side let alone a Championship side.

 

[JLW]

There's no point trying to be rational the pitchforks are out and absolutely everything that the club does is not just wrong but the worst thing that anyones ever done.

What point should the pitch forks come out mate?

After a heavy defeat by Spurs?
Or shall we wait until we grab a point or 3 and think its the 'turning point'

 

[toffeeblue9]

You aren't winning anything with Holgate starting at RB and seeing the pitch. Very well could be the same with Dixon. But Holgate has proven time and time again that he does not belong anywhere near a Premier League side let alone a Championship side.

I can't argue with that, but for all we know Holgate might be levels above the lad in training.

It reminds me a bit of when people were screaming for Dobbin to be thrown in up front when Benitez was here, despite having practically never seen him and Dobbin not even being a striker anyway.

You see it all the time - people get angry at established players being awful and assume an untried kid must be a better option. It usually isn't otherwise untried kids would be playing all over the country week in, week out.

It's not unusual - it's common of most football fans and part of that is that they'll forgive a kid for being crap but won't do the same for an established player.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Agree to a large extent mate and thanks for the politeness whilst debating. However nobody knows how any player will perform at this level until they are given the chance, and approaching 20 years of age next Saturday has to be his chance. Why play someone who by rights should not even be here over a genuine right back. It does not make sense to me.

I get where you're coming from. I guess my question back would be, are you happy for Dixon to play and be worse than Holgate would be but have in mind that he needs the experience, even if it costs the team?

 

[JimmyK]

What point should the pitch forks come out mate?

After a heavy defeat by Spurs?
Or shall we wait until we grab a point or 3 and think its the 'turning point'

Its up to you what you do I'd rather not get the pitchforks out at all if I can help it but i'm not judging you. There was context to what I was saying which you've totally missed or ignored which is exactly the same as about 10 other replies i've had on different posts over the last 2 days because everyones in pitchfork mode and just raging about stuff that doesn't even say what they think it says. My point was about people saying Dyche will never play O'Brien becuase he didn't pick him in ONE game which is totally irrational it was not a comment about our performance as a team and so the result against Spurs has got nothing to do with it. We're probably going to lose something like 14-18 games this season thats just the truth I don't like it but its the reality we're dealing with so I don't see the point in losing my head every single time it happens because thats not healthy but like I said i'm not judging.

 

[derek duvall]

Starting Dixon is desperation at this point in his career - we ca say ability > experience but Tim had a solid season with QPR before he played PL games.

Players like Rooney are the exception not the rule.

I’d take a desperation (what might have ended up different) over suicidal which is what Mitoma vs 39 yr old Ashley Young was

 

[Street end man]

I get where you're coming from. I guess my question back would be, are you happy for Dixon to play and be worse than Holgate would be but have in mind that he needs the experience, even if it costs the team?

I'd assume Holgate would be on the bench for such a thing as it becomes obvious after 20 minutes Dixon is not up to it A scenario I'd hope would be far from the case.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Are you suggesting if Dixon started instead of Young on Saturday we’d have lost 7-0 or something? I’m sorry I don’t buy it. There’s not a chance he is worse than Ashley Young at this stage of his career. We’re gaining nothing by playing Young, he can’t defend, he can’t attack, he can’t run. We would be no worse starting with 10 men than starting with him. At least Dixon would offer some qualities, like pace.

Going to offer a probably unwelcome opinion here but until Young's sending off on Saturday, I didn't think he was too bad. Crossing was a bit naff, but defensively against a lad like Mitoma who's lightning quick, I thought he was doing largely alright. Nothing amazing, but he pressed high and aggressively and tried not to let Mitoma get turned. Showed experience with that. However, we will all rightly focus on that mistake for the sending off and it was terrible.

Would Dixon have done any worse? Who knows? Quite possibly? Putting a scoreline on it seems churlish, but it's absolutely always possible to be worse than a bad performance you've just witnessed.

 

[pfim]

Agree to a large extent mate and thanks for the politeness whilst debating. However nobody knows how any player will perform at this level until they are given the chance, and approaching 20 years of age next Saturday has to be his chance. Why play someone who by rights should not even be here over a genuine right back. It does not make sense to me.

Not everyone deserves a chance. I don't know if this guy does or not, but just throwing someone into the fire at 19 is probably not a good idea, for the club or for him.

There are options other than playing Holgate that are probably better than a 19 year old that has never made a senior team appearance.

 

[NathDogg]

I get where you're coming from. I guess my question back would be, are you happy for Dixon to play and be worse than Holgate would be but have in mind that he needs the experience, even if it costs the team?

The kid hasn’t got a blot on his copy book, unlike our other alternatives with that magic word “experience”.

He deserves the right to actually be worse than holgate or young - let him have a go, if he’s bad or worse then what have we lost, as we already know the alternatives are bad or possibly worse.

We may unearth a new Coleman or baines or better….

 

[blueblue]

Might be because they never get a chance and eventually get sold?

How many come back afterwards as Premiership player ?, very few.

 

[pfim]

I can't argue with that, but for all we know Holgate might be levels above the lad in training.

It reminds me a bit of when people were screaming for Dobbin to be thrown in up front when Benitez was here, despite having practically never seen him and Dobbin not even being a striker anyway.

You see it all the time - people get angry at established players being awful and assume an untried kid must be a better option. It usually isn't otherwise untried kids would be playing all over the country week in, week out.

It's not unusual - it's common of most football fans and part of that is that they'll forgive a kid for being crap but won't do the same for an established player.

Everyone's confidence in the unknown is baffling. How many players have come through the U21s and never made an appearance let alone an impact on the first team?

The answer is yes, he can be worse than Holgate or Young. He could be better, but at 19 it's more likely he'll fail and we're back at square one as a squad and have probably given a huge blow to the guy's confidence.

 

[pfim]

The kid hasn’t got a blot on his copy book, unlike our other alternatives with that magic word “experience”.

He deserves the right to actually be worse than holgate or young - let him have a go, if he’s bad or worse then what have we lost, as we already know the alternatives are bad or possibly worse.

We may unearth a new Coleman or baines or better….

Why? What has he done?

Coleman wasn't a first team regular until age 22 and even then he was playing a lot of wing.