2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[Saint Domingo]

You'd take Ange? Think he's absolutely awful me. That Liverpool game yesterday, you could see Liverpool would trash them from the first 5 minutes, gifting them chance after chance, and then the trashing by Chelsea last year when they were down to 9 men and playing a high line...

There's principals and then there's just idiocy.

Football is a two way game but some fans seem to always assume that you can turn the attacking taps on easily whilst maintaining the defensive ones.

Can you imagine the carnage on here if Liverpool came to Goodison and won 6-3, having been 5-1 up, after Chelsea had battered us 4-2 at home, Ipswich beat us at home, especially after the investment they’ve had in that team. No amount of ‘yeah but the attacking is exciting’ would save him. It simply wouldn’t be tolerated.

What people want is a team that maintains our defensive solidity but also scores more at the other end. We all want that but it ain’t happening with this squad of players, we’d need far better attacking options to balance that equation.

For comparison Pickford is England’s undisputed number 1. Branthwaite is likely to be in the squad under Tuchel and almost certainly in the team at some point. Mykolenko plays for Ukraine national team, Idrissa Gueye played for PSG.

What does the equivalent attacking talent look like? Undisputed number 1 striker for England? Kane, up and coming attacking player likely to be in the England team with a price tag of 70 mill? Palmer, Gibbs White maybe? Attacking player good enough to have played regularly for PSG? Ukrainian wide attacking player?

For our attack to have that comparable quality we would be looking at absolutely top players. Instead we have Calvert Lewin (barely an international probably won’t be again), McNeil and Harrison (probably never internationals), Lindstrom (hasn’t scored in 60 games), Ndiaye (Sheffield United Marseille Everton)

It’s absolutely no wonder in my mind that Everton managers build their game plan around the defensive players in the team.

Until we provide managers with better attacking player, every future manager is either going to do the same, or die on the postecoglou sword of being outgunned by any decent team they play.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I don’t know anymore

I always get worried that he’s lost the dressing room but then then he gets 5 points from Wolves, Arsenal and Chelsea, and suddenly I have to reconsider things again

Is he the manager to take us forward?

Probably not

Is he capable of keeping the ship steady until that manager comes along?

Maybe

Honestly the style argument means nothing to me. It’s about results, and if he can get them then fair enough, give him till the end of the season and reassess

If we go on another bad run then it’s one bad run too many imo and action is likely required

 

[Saint Domingo]

I don’t know anymore

I always get worried that he’s lost the dressing room but then then he gets 5 points from Wolves, Arsenal and Chelsea, and suddenly I have to reconsider things again

Is he the manager to take us forward?

Probably not

Is he capable of keeping the ship steady until that manager comes along?

Maybe

Honestly the style argument means nothing to me. It’s about results, and if he can get them then fair enough, give him till the end of the season and reassess

If we go on another bad run then it’s one bad run too many imo and action is likely required

Literally this.

I think we’re in an ok situation that could easily turn bad or could literally disappear with a run of results either way. It would have been nice had we not experimented the first 4 games and had Branthwaite fit because I feel we’d be looking at 19 or 20 points now and not worrying as much.

The good thing now though is that rather than us being 15 points after 20 games with one of the three worst squads in the league, and injury crisis, no money, and one of the worst fixture lists possible ahead. If we suddenly took a downturn in results and had to get rid of Dyche we’re in a better position than we were, we may have money in January, injuries aren’t so bad, and we’d still have Ipswich Southampton Leicester West Ham at home.

I’m hoping we can just keep the points per game ration going, perhaps pick up another win we don’t expect somewhere and the spectre of relegation will go and we can see out the season whilst Friekdin plans for the new era.

 

[Terrarian]

Football is a two way game but some fans seem to always assume that you can turn the attacking taps on easily whilst maintaining the defensive ones.

Can you imagine the carnage on here if Liverpool came to Goodison and won 6-3, having been 5-1 up, after Chelsea had battered us 4-2 at home, Ipswich beat us at home, especially after the investment they’ve had in that team. No amount of ‘yeah but the attacking is exciting’ would save him. It simply wouldn’t be tolerated.

What people want is a team that maintains our defensive solidity but also scores more at the other end. We all want that but it ain’t happening with this squad of players, we’d need far better attacking options to balance that equation.

For comparison Pickford is England’s undisputed number 1. Branthwaite is likely to be in the squad under Tuchel and almost certainly in the team at some point. Mykolenko plays for Ukraine national team, Idrissa Gueye played for PSG.

What does the equivalent attacking talent look like? Undisputed number 1 striker for England? Kane, up and coming attacking player likely to be in the England team with a price tag of 70 mill? Palmer, Gibbs White maybe? Attacking player good enough to have played regularly for PSG? Ukrainian wide attacking player?

For our attack to have that comparable quality we would be looking at absolutely top players. Instead we have Calvert Lewin (barely an international probably won’t be again), McNeil and Harrison (probably never internationals), Lindstrom (hasn’t scored in 60 games), Ndiaye (Sheffield United Marseille Everton)

It’s absolutely no wonder in my mind that Everton managers build their game plan around the defensive players in the team.

Until we provide managers with better attacking player, every future manager is either going to do the same, or die on the postecoglou sword of being outgunned by any decent team they play.

Nobody is saying we suddenly become all out attack like Ang's Spurs, not a single poster has said anything such.

Truth is this 16 games, 16 points 14 goals and we haven't scored in a good whack of those games, are you seriously suggesting we can't expect to score more, we're on less than a goal a game. We absolutely can do better attacking,.

 

[Carlito]

It’s sort of funny that he sets the team up so the other team find it hard to punish us.
Fact is that we have weaker sides than these teams. We have to play to our strengths.

I'm just glad it'll be over soon.

Not sure there's another club that could both tolerate and afford him, so I hope his admirers are making the most of these exhibitions.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Nobody is saying we suddenly become all out attack like Ang's Spurs, not a single poster has said anything such.

Truth is this 16 games, 16 points 14 goals and we haven't scored in a good whack of those games, are you seriously suggesting we can't expect to score more, we're on less than a goal a game. We absolutely can do better attacking,.

The original posy was about Postecoglou though in fairness, regardless though it’s the same debate, attacking gains v
if we start letting them in the other end? Some of the teams below us have scored more but have less points.

The game plan is to keep it tight at the back and the forwards have to take the few chances that come their way. It’s a plan that keeps us up in my view.

If we go into gun fights against all the other teams in the PL how many do you think we outscore? We have some of the worst attacking players in the league and I wouldn’t put any store in them putting chances away whilst we left the back door open for counters etc. 3-2s may be exciting but not when you’re losing most of them.

You’ve just proved my point. You just want more goals, we all do, I’m sure if we put prime Barkely Mirallas Lukaku Deulofeu in this team there would be more, but our attacking players are tripe. So we would have to give them a lot more chances and that means fullbacks taking more risks, midfielders committing to attacks, CBs being braver on the ball playing higher and it all opens up the chance of being done the other way.

Tarkowski Mykolenko Young have no pace running back to their own goal and it could very easily be Brighton all over again game after game, we miss some chances and then get cut apart on transition.

 

[Terrarian]

And if we start letting them in the other end? Some of the teams below us have scored more but have less points.

The game plan is to keep it tight at the back and the forwards have to take the few chances that come their way. It’s a plan that keeps us up in my view.

If we go into gun fights against all the tiger teams in the PL how many do you think we outscore? We have some of the worst attacking players in the league and I wouldn’t put any shots in them putting chances away whilst we left the back door open for counters etc. 3-2s may be exciting but not when you’re losing most of them.

You’ve just proved my point. You just want more goals, we all do, I’m sure if we put prime Barkely Mirallas Lukaku Deulofeu in this team there would be more, but our attacking players are tripe. So we would have to give them a lot more chances and that means fullbacks taking more risks, midfielders commuting to attacks, CBs being braver on the ball paining higher and it all opens up the chance of being done the other way.

Tarkowski Mykolenko Young have no pace running back to their own goal and it could very easily be Brighton all over again game after game, we miss some chances and then get cut apart on transition.

We're never going to agree on this in a million years SD, so I shall let you continue your day.

 

[Saint Domingo]

So maybe our owner should have found the funds to help us get up the table?

He turned off the taps.

People moaning about Dyche are still fighting the last war. He's history.

The day to bash the manager (any manager) is when they are significantly underperforming the baseline level of the squad on a continuous basis. Hence for me the two bottom half finishes by Martinez with a squad containing Stones Barry McCarthy Barkley Mirallas Lukaku down the spine was worthy of criticism especially in the third season after most fans had given him a chance after the 2nd season. What Koeman produced with all the money he spent as well was worthy of a lot of criticism. Silva I think didn’t do enough with what he had.

Since Dyche arrived though the taps have been turned off and we gave him a squad that was 19th and had got 32 points the season before, we also sold its best attacking player before he arrived. In every summer window since we’ve sold the best players in the team and got cheaper ones in.

His full season league finishes read 12th (without a points deduction) and he’s currently 15th with a game in hand.

People are getting very very angry that a manager we keep giving bottom half squads to, has us in the bottom half.

one way of improving is to try and find that needle in a haystack manger who can improve results with barely any money and have bad players playing very good football consistently. If he does exist then Everton would do well to find him and attract him above other clubs.

It sure is a lot easier though just to have a better squad of players.

 

[Groucho]

It depends on whether we have money to spend in the summer or not. I don’t want us to spend a significant amount just to play Dycheball more effectively. Plus, the thought of him giving Doucoure a new contract would keep me awake at night.

Goes to Goodison, pulls out the club motto and sets it alight in front of the Gladwys Street.

Just for clarity, you think 16 points from 16 games is worth a two year extension at £5m a year plus a £3m relegation avoidance bonus?

Yeah I mean I'm not busting a gut for him to stay, I think that's been misunderstood.

I just would like caution and us not to bust a gut to get anyone in because that's how we got here via the like of Ronald Koeman etc...

What I'm saying is, take our time, don't rush and mess it up simply for change's sake. We have a golden opportunity here, lets not waste it by being hasty.

 

[Zatara]

Leaving all tactics aside.

Where my problem starts is in the composition of the team is we got are Lindström, Ndiaye and Broja to improve the offense. But one of our biggest problem was the winger position last season in the attack to solve. Lindström and Ndiaye can play wingers, but I rather see them as No. 10 and we got two of them, Broja played winger, but he's a central striker by default.

I don't see McNeil or Harrison as the winger profile that's needed today. With pace and good technique, like Semenyo or Hudson Odoi.

My idea in the beginning was moving McNeil centrally, as I saw him the most suitable player to play the number 10 of the squad of last season, certainly better than Doucoure and get in 2 wingers in the profile of Semenyo that can do the hard work, but improve us offensively.

With Ndiaye that plays winger in the majority and does a solid job there we found one of that player, but as I said he's rather a 10 for me.

So you'd play him at 10 every game and I guess you'd like us to sign 2 wingers?

Clean sheet performances - Dyche gets credit.

Failure to score - players get blame

If the players are missing clear chances.

 

[Zatara]

I keep seeing this but nobody can tell me why it’s the case. Was it too much to ask to finish in and around where we finished last season, which was mid table without points deductions? Why are we on course for 38 points, what’s gone wrong there?

Are we allowed to maybe throw the suggestion out there that the manager has put us back into a relegation battle? We’re currently 4 points off 19th place, it’s not looking likely that we’ll be able to draw our way to safety. I don’t understand why this season ever had to be so stressful and desperate.

Branthwaite missed the start of the season & DCL has pretty much downed tools

 

[Victus]

1969 pages and like 4-5 arguments going back and forth for eternity.

 

[efcste97]

Yeah I mean I'm not busting a gut for him to stay, I think that's been misunderstood.

I just would like caution and us not to bust a gut to get anyone in because that's how we got here via the like of Ronald Koeman etc...

What I'm saying is, take our time, don't rush and mess it up simply for change's sake. We have a golden opportunity here, lets not waste it by being hasty.

They've got months to find a replacement, as long as dyche keeps us clear he's going nowhere until his contract expires. They've probably been working on identifying a manager for a while already, hopefully it's a manager most can get behind and we can start to rebuild, I do worry they'll go after someone like Southgate though.

 

[Ozwell]

Nobody is saying we suddenly become all out attack like Ang's Spurs, not a single poster has said anything such.

Truth is this 16 games, 16 points 14 goals and we haven't scored in a good whack of those games, are you seriously suggesting we can't expect to score more, we're on less than a goal a game. We absolutely can do better attacking,.

I am not truly defending Dyche but if you look at the chances Harrison, doucoure and dcl have missed, it’s criminal. How one on ones has dcl and doucoure missed? I am not saying they should have scored every single one but just one between them would be a start.

Keane looks more likely to score them most of our forward players, sadly that’s not a joke.

 

[Pettifogger]

I don’t know anymore

I always get worried that he’s lost the dressing room but then then he gets 5 points from Wolves, Arsenal and Chelsea, and suddenly I have to reconsider things again

Is he the manager to take us forward?

Probably not

Is he capable of keeping the ship steady until that manager comes along?

Maybe

Honestly the style argument means nothing to me. It’s about results, and if he can get them then fair enough, give him till the end of the season and reassess

If we go on another bad run then it’s one bad run too many imo and action is likely required

I like to troll a bit about Dyche because I know he's so out of favor, but I agree.

But I think you can make a pretty strong case that he has/is stabilizing the club and that stabilization should be the near term priority, at least for another season or two. I know it's not entertaining, but if the excitement we get is relegation battles to the final weekend, then I'll pass. Compared with other recent managers, Dyche seemed the most capable to me of weathering bad stretches without losing the dressing room and continuing to work the problem until safety appears on the horizon. I don't think he's "building" in the sense of taking EFC to new heights, but I think he's building to a place where the club can say he's done an admirable job getting us to a sustainable level, and then we can go find the right tools to see if we can make a run to another tier.