Stoke v Everton. 4th March at 19.45.

[Stanley Parker]

How does it work over the park then? They invariably perm 3 DMs out of Leiva, Allen, Henderson, Can and Gerard -- and they still create lots of opportunities.

You've already told us; 'the difference is that their Sterling/Coutinho/Sturridge combination ahead of them is so much better than any equivalent combination we've been putting together.'

You say that we often get the ball forward but only Lukaku is in the box. Exactly. What's stopping at least our second creative MF getting in there as well? And why wouldn't we be able to get one of the 3 DMs up there with play anyway? Everyone else's DMs get up there and get goals.

So you think that one of the three defensive MFs should play more like a creative MF?

 

[mrb85]

You've already told us; 'the difference is that their Sterling/Coutinho/Sturridge combination ahead of them is so much better than any equivalent combination we've been putting together.'



So you think that one of the three defensive MFs should play more like a creative MF?

Well, Barry for instance has always been a holding MF player after he stopped being a LB and he hasn't stopped him getting goals wherever he has played -- except for Everton. Problem is, it's self evident that RM thinks it's too risky for his more defensive MFs to get too far forward too often. Unfortunately the more attacking MFs are now thinking the same applies to them.

 

[mrb85]

You've already told us; 'the difference is that their Sterling/Coutinho/Sturridge combination ahead of them is so much better than any equivalent combination we've been putting together.'



So you think that one of the three defensive MFs should play more like a creative MF?

Well, with three of them there must surely be more chances for one of them to lend more forward support without weakening the defensive duties, particularly at GP. Take Barry for example. As a MF he's always been the holding player but he's always chipped in with goals -- not so under RM though. Christ, he's even stopped shooting!

 

[donalmclean]

I was going to add that I don't think we should judge him on his time at Wigan.

Not so much comparing apples with oranges, but perhaps grapes with gooseberries.

Managing Wigan is a bit different from managing Everton.

why?
Yes it is different given that hes got a much better superior squad of players, than he ever had at wigan, and we're having a Wigan type season? No?

 

[Stanley Parker]

why?
Yes it is different given that hes got a much better superior squad of players, than he ever had at wigan, and we're having a Wigan type season? No?

No. At Wigan, Martinez had to get the best out of his players if they were to compete in the Premier League.

Last season, he was able to get the best out of the Everton players, and enable them to compete with the top teams.

This season, he hasn't been able to do the same. The reason why isn't clear - to me, at least.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Well, Barry for instance has always been a holding MF player after he stopped being a LB and he hasn't stopped him getting goals wherever he has played -- except for Everton. Problem is, it's self evident that RM thinks it's too risky for his more defensive MFs to get too far forward too often. Unfortunately the more attacking MFs are now thinking the same applies to them.

Barry now plays a different role at Everton. When the full backs attack, he drops back to make up a back three. This, naturally, doesn't give him many opportunities to score.

Barry's recent league record;
Manchester City
2009/10 - 2 goals
2010/11 - 2 goals
2011/12 - 1 goal
2012/13 - 1 goal
Everton
2013/14 - 3 goals
2014/15 - 0 goals

He did, in fact, start his league career at Aston Villa on the left-hand side of a back three alongside Gareth Southgate and Ugo Ehiogu.

 

[donalmclean]

No. At Wigan, Martinez had to get the best out of his players if they were to compete in the Premier League.

Last season, he was able to get the best out of the Everton players, and enable them to compete with the top teams.

This season, he hasn't been able to do the same. The reason why isn't clear - to me, at least.

Yes and he didnt really get them to compete to their maximum potential otherwise theyd have stayed up. They were quality prem players at wigan surely? iwhy else would he have signed 4 of them, not forgetting he was strongly linked to one or two others, when he came here ?

 

[Stanley Parker]

Yes and he didnt really get them to compete to their maximum potential otherwise theyd have stayed up. They were quality prem players at wigan surely? iwhy else would he have signed 4 of them, not forgetting he was strongly linked to one or two others, when he came here ?

He had an adequate first team, but a very small squad. After all, he had been required to reduce the wage bill by 22% over four years.

Wigan had a spate of long-term injuries to first team players - Al Habsi, Ramis, Alcaraz, Caldwell, Figueroa and Beausejour.

Remarkably, Roberto was able to cobble a team together to beat Manchester City in the Cup Final, but the struggle in the cup and league was simply too much for the remnants of his squad.

I think McArthur - now at Crystal Palace - could have provided cover for Barry, and could even have been a long term replacement. And he had a good partnership with McCarthy too.

 

[orly]

why?
Yes it is different given that hes got a much better superior squad of players, than he ever had at wigan, and we're having a Wigan type season? No?

There is not enough Neg in the universe for this post

TIME TO BE KO-NEGGED

 

[mrb85]

Barry now plays a different role at Everton. When the full backs attack, he drops back to make up a back three. This, naturally, doesn't give him many opportunities to score.

Barry's recent league record;
Manchester City
2009/10 - 2 goals
2010/11 - 2 goals
2011/12 - 1 goal
2012/13 - 1 goal
Everton
2013/14 - 3 goals
2014/15 - 0 goals

He did, in fact, start his league career at Aston Villa on the left-hand side of a back three alongside Gareth Southgate and Ugo Ehiogu.

Not as impressive a scoring record as I thought. Te point remains though that with 3 DMs there's no reason why they couldn't support the attack when appropriate.

I think that Barry started as an orthodox LB.

 

[Stanley Parker]

I think that Barry started as an orthodox LB.

At Aston Villa; "Initially, he played as a central defender, on the left-hand side of a back three alongside Gareth Southgate and Ugo Ehiogu. Barry became a highly versatile player and captain first as a centre-back, then a left-back. He then moved to left-midfield, before establishing himself in the centre of midfield."

 

[Jeff Jones]

why?
Yes it is different given that hes got a much better superior squad of players, than he ever had at wigan, and we're having a Wigan type season? No?

The question I was pondering was whether we should risk sacking Martinez when it's possible his true worth was demonstrated at Everton
last season. Wigan were consistently mediocre or poor during his time there, probably because of the reason you stated - inferior squad -, so, which is the real Martinez?

I think we should give him until the end of the season. If we stay up with improved performances and results I'd give him more time, but
if we stay up by the skin of our teeth, or go down, he will probably go.

 

[1966efc]

The questions I'm interested in are, is he inflexible? Has he got the mental strength to deal with pressures at a relatively big club? Can he inspire players?

He's fully entitled to spout all the nonsense he likes about style but that's a secondary issue in my book.

 

[mrb85]

The questions I'm interested in are, is he inflexible? Has he got the mental strength to deal with pressures at a relatively big club? Can he inspire players?

He's fully entitled to spout all the nonsense he likes about style but that's a secondary issue in my book.

What do you mean 'relatively'?

 

[donalmclean]

He didnt get the best out of his players at Wigan and he's not getting the BBC

The question I was pondering was whether we should risk sacking Martinez when it's possible his true worth was demonstrated at Everton
last season. Wigan were consistently mediocre or poor during his time there, probably because of the reason you stated - inferior squad -, so, which is the real Martinez?

I think we should give him until the end of the season. If we stay up with improved performances and results I'd give him more time, but
if we stay up by the skin of our teeth, or go down, he will probably go.

im not saying sack him, just that when it comes to relegating a team he has form. He has a good sqaud of players here, much better than a lot of teams above us, yet in the domestic competitions we have struggled against domestic opposition.