The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Coach]

Here is one way to raise £5bn a year instead of hitting the most vulnerable in society - get rid of the buy-to-let tax relief.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ords-profits-boosted-5bn-year-tax-breaks.html

Oh I forgot, these people are mostly in the southern Tory heartlands aren't they....

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

Here is one way to raise £5bn a year instead of hitting the most vulnerable in society - get rid of the buy-to-let tax relief.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ords-profits-boosted-5bn-year-tax-breaks.html

Oh I forgot, these people are mostly in the southern Tory heartlands aren't they....

Ooh you cant say that, unless you say that the rents should go up so that the landlords don't lose out, it doesn't suit the agenda of those that don't want for anything.

 

[L4Everton]

It's alright man, I like your passion

Passion is born from pain. Hence Everton.
Pulling myself out of a morbid moment now. We all want solutions, the problems are so complex that getting to grips with the principal issue is a phd task.

 

[red1]

Are you aware of the Rotherham scandal (It is not exclusive to just there!)

The justice system should be taking care of this, I'm not sure why you mentioned it. In fact there is actually some overlap between social work and the judicial courts believe it or not, it's again caused by the bloated social spending.

Teachers are under the pinch as it is, you want more hired to cover the extended needs of the learning disabled or do you want a class of 30, 40, 50 to be reduced to repeat learnings of abc and 1 to 10?
Young offenders - some of them get in trouble as a cry for help, because they have been neglected or worse.
School non-attenders. Who you sending otherwise? A police force that can't be arsed to investigate rapes???
Drugs and Alcohol, I wonder how many junkies and flunkies end up passing part of that coping mechanism onto the children they could never actually care for?

I agree with you about the fact that teachers are getting cuts and the police are not doing their job properly etc. This isn't an either-or situation. I'm focusing on the worthless investment the 30 billion given to the social care industrial complex is. Most of the work can be done and should be done by the justice system and the education system, adding social workers on top of it will cause more bureaucracy and problems, it's not going to solve anything.

If suddenly someone appeared on my doorstep and informed me the state required me to take care of my siblings children (if I hve any!) and suddenly I have 1 or even 5 kids to care for, totally unprepared with no paternal bond established, how does that affect me in my 9 to 5 (am I single or is my girlfriend or wife quitting work) from paying tax and contributing more that I receive.
Where is the choice for the people you force the responsibility on? They are vote holding adults, with a few quid and some form of recourse to complain. There is a reason children have been negatively affected by the care burden for some 20 years. Out of sight, out of mind.

Mate, mate. Your sibling's children are at your doorstep and....what are you doing? "Totally unprepared", "no paternal bond", "working 9-to-5" what are these excuses? You would seriously hand over your own nieces and nephews to the government, to people who couldn't care less about them, who could not give less of a [Poor language removed] about them? See, this is the problem. Our over-dependence on the government is just appalling. This is exactly why we have a gigantic nanny state. People just don't want to care for their own families are willing to chuck them to Westminster the first chance they get. This entitlement attitude that the government has to literally take care of our own blood relatives because we have better things to do, it's selfish, disgusting and I honestly have no further words, it's a shame on us. [I am not calling you disgusting btw, this isn't a personal attack, it's an attack on the selfish attitude society has adopted].

 

[L4Everton]

But I chose not to have children so I could focus on my career and make a difference the way I chose.

But I might be some type of Jimmy Saville wrong un that you wouldn't leave your slippers with, let alone any children.

But if I am solely the responsible carer for a kid or three, how can I go to work to set a working example to them as well as provide in terms of finance to help them towards a better life and standard of living?

But what if I'm single with plans of my own children, who's gonna shack up with me with 3 kids that are sort of blood and I have no job because i'm a 25 hour a day parent by not my own choice?

Entitlement? I'm not saying throw the most unfortunate kids on the bonfire becauce it's too diffuclt to care for them, but where do you draw the line? No relatives? Behavioual problems? Severe sick problems? Family overseas?

In theory it seems like joining the dots, but life teaches that only born and death are linear. Everything in between is scattershot. One size never fits all.

 

[rascal]

Tbf red1, you're coming across as a fantasist. 30 minutes in the presence of my 18 month old niece is enough to give me thoughts of drilling a hole through my head because it would be more fun than listen to her continuously crying, so if God forbid my sister copped it and I was told that I was to be the one to look after her I'd probably run as fast as possible and I bet I'm not the only one who feels that way about their siblings kids lol

 

[red1]

So how would you solve the problems caused by and related to those four examples you give? It's easy to point out that money is being spent like there's no tomorrow, but not so easy to provide an alternative that will work better in practice and be acceptable to society. Your ideas about who should care for vulnerable children are fine in theory but I doubt they'd be workable in most cases. There are plenty of reasons why people are not able to care for their relatives and they have nothing to do with selfishness or apathy.

Well, this paragraph of yours is cleverly written, there are no specifics, it's so generalised that there's nothing specifically I can comment on haha But I will say this anyway; what's unworkable is the current state we're in. Take a survey of any group of children and try to find how many of them are looking forward to being raised by "social workers". I don't even have to comment on this. I'm sorry I have to spell it out but social workers are a necessary evil to children. The only reason why they SHOULD exist is to keep kids away from a genuinely more horrific ordeal. The problem is, too many people like yourself are looking at social workers as the ideal way of taking care of kids, the final destination.

In my experience, they are working with at least one hand tied behind their back by the legal framework they operate in

Oh God, so you would give them even MORE powers than they already have? Just shoot me haha

 

[red1]

so if God forbid my sister copped it and I was told that I was to be the one to look after her I'd probably run as fast as possible and I bet I'm not the only one who feels that way about their siblings kids lol

I would probably have the same thoughts to be honest, it's natural but at the end of the day it's your niece lol if you don't take care of them, who will? Some bitch in Manchester who has to care for 4 more kids like her and wouldn't even think about giving her the time of day of listening to her or giving her a decent childhood and just don't give a [Poor language removed] in general. Or maybe some old plonker in Plymouth who's always dreamed about having a daughter but who your niece despises because she has no connections with them or their old smelly friends and who won't allow your niece to do the hobbies she's always done or have the childhood she's familiar with?

Alright guys, I'm done, you guys can have the last word I know my opinion is unpopular here, but like I said I am conservative on a lot of social issues and I do fear an out-of-control nanny state.

 

[L4Everton]

I would probably have the same thoughts to be honest, it's natural but at the end of the day it's your niece lol if you don't take care of them, who will? Some bitch in Manchester who has to care for 4 more kids like her and wouldn't even think about giving her the time of day of listening to her or giving her a decent childhood and just don't give a [Poor language removed] in general. Or maybe some old plonker in Plymouth who's always dreamed about having a daughter but who your niece despises because she has no connections with them or their old smelly friends and who won't allow your niece to do the hobbies she's always done or have the childhood she's familiar with?

Alright guys, I'm done, you guys can have the last word I know my opinion is unpopular here, but like I said I am conservative on a lot of social issues and I do fear an out-of-control nanny state.

Being disagreed with is not a reason to leave. Although I don't agree with a lot of your points of view, it expands my reasoning reading them. It's about education and I hope us all coming to the reason that 'one size does not fit all'.

 

[red1]

Being disagreed with is not a reason to leave. Although I don't agree with a lot of your points of view, it expands my reasoning reading them. It's about education and I hope us all coming to the reason that 'one size does not fit all'.

Thanks. But I'm leaving because I ran out of things to say lol I enjoyed reading your posts btw, it was a good debate.

 

[L4Everton]

But I'm leaving because I ran out of things to say

That aint Tory mate. Sorry.

 

[rascal]

She's my niece but she's not my child. There's a big difference lid.

 

[chewee]

The tories in reality are no better at handling the economy than Labour.

Thatcher - Signed up to disasterous ERM, uneployment at almost 3 million in mid 80s

Major - Presided over Black Wednesday, plunged billions of £ into a lost cause. Inflation sky rocketed overnight

Cameron - Longest economic recovery on record, wage growth at 130 year low

 

[McBain]

You could kill people with those slabs of text lads.

 

[Donald Twain]

The tories in reality are no better at handling the economy than Labour.

Thatcher - Signed up to disasterous ERM, uneployment at almost 3 million in mid 80s

Major - Presided over Black Wednesday, plunged billions of £ into a lost cause. Inflation sky rocketed overnight

Cameron - Longest economic recovery on record, wage growth at 130 year low

If anyone thinks the war on the poor is solving our Deficit and economy is fooling themselves! The government's targets are being pushed back year on year and sticking the boot into the welfare dependent is nothing more than smoke and mirrors for DM readers and Arsenal fans. If you live in London it must be 'crisis what crisis' and any world where Boris is anything other than a horrible joke I want no part of.