The Friedkin Group - Dan & Ryan Friedkin

[Simon Buttle]

Could a different buyer take a different approach than TFG or will this be a constant roadblock for anyone looking at buying the club?

Depends on the approach I guess, there has to be a way around the situation.

 

[pfim]

This could be our salvation. Leadenhall, as investment fund managers, will want this resolved to their favour as quickly as possible too where they act on behalf of their underlying clients. In addition, the publicity on them wont be welcome. The long arm of the US lawmakers will equally be adding to the heavy costs A-CAP will be suffering where, presumably, their own underlying clients are fleeing at pace given the publicity 777 has brought to their own door.

So best outcome is A-CAP and Leadenhall agree to negotiate with future buyers of Everton on their legacy 777 loan as well as whoever buys the rest of the stable of clubs 777 did end up acquiring. The more legal costs accumulating on the part of A-CAP at present, the better then.

It does stand to reason they would want out of this as quickly as possible as well, but if Leadenhall truly believes there is money for them to recover it could take a while.

 

[pfim]

Depends on the approach I guess, there has to be a way around the situation.

The way around is for Moshiri to indemnify the buyer or take less, neither of which is going to happen.

If someone comes in and values the club above the sum of debt and Moshiri's asking price, more power to them. It doesn't seem like anyone has done that thus far.

 

[CielosGrises]

The way around is for Moshiri to indemnify the buyer or take less, neither of which is going to happen.

If someone comes in and values the club above the sum of debt and Moshiri's asking price, more power to them. It doesn't seem like anyone has done that thus far.

Quite comical the mess Mosh has made for himself - but I guess he is at stage now where he only stands to lose the 50m or whatever he wants for his shares.

Otherwise he'd be throwing more cash into the Everton hole himself.

 

[davek]

Oh God Dave, I could well be wrong, but I'm almost certain on his motivations being genuine, if getting a foothold in on the stadium was the intention, then he could have at any point simply either purchased the loans from MSP and Bell or simply stepped in as an additional source of funding once 777/ACAP went tits up.

He didn't which suggests his motivation is to own the club and turn it around - the guy comes across in various interviews and second hand reports as very much a nostalgic guy who prizes history. Genuinely feel that he wants the challenge of doing a restoration job on a historic institution.

The unknown is just how deep the pit is with regards to ACAP and RMP is though, as until that's resolved or resolvable without getting him mired into it then he will stay connected but at arms reach.

One thing I am certain on, he's not a chancer - I'd say the polar opposite.

And whilst initially he made some bad decisions at Roma in terms of spending - he learnt the lesson to bring in people and stepped back fast into a support role for them. Something here we all too painfully know is rare for an owner to do

Two things mate:

1/ surely Friedkin would have been well aware of the confusion over who the 777 debt is owed to before asking for an exclusivity period with Moshiri

2/ Friedkin: he might well be a level head who could provide good governance again. But for me it's a matter of the trajectory of his investment at Roma as providing a guide to their likely resources they could throw at Everton and also the model of ownership - being part of a number of clubs in his stable. He sounds like he'd be a serious businessman for Everton to have, but I genuinely doubt whether he's been after that.

 

[toffee66]

There are always possible solutions to any negotiation impasses but it always takes compromise and usually some significant change of circumstance. TFG and any other US based potential buyer will be the most sensitive and wary about US lawsuits, potential federal investigations etc. but any legitimate buyer should certainly want more clarity than there is now. If it was me I’d seek a legal indemnity from Moshiri and 777/A-Cap against any financial consequences (fines, legal fees, court costs etc.)

Might someone other than TFG be prepared to accept more risk? Possibly. Should they? Probably not. TFG has actually strengthened my view they would be a competent owner by making a grown-up decision. I’d be more wary of any potential buyer who was not extremely cautious about this mess.

So it might turn out to be a waiting game. Unless the lawsuits and wider potential investigative threats are resolved in the next few months I would suspect that we will be no further forward with a potential new buyer and thus have to sell players in January or June for cash flow. Having said that I am very wary of the extremist negative positions some have taken. It is bad but it is not irredeemable. We need the US authorities to get a move on!

 

[Drico]

I think the pull-out is a negotiating tactic. He's pulled that trick before at Roma. Moshiri seems to want to have his cake and eat it, but that's not going to be a tenable position unless he has a queue of Arabs lining up to squander a billion - and he doesn't.

I suspect we'll end up in one of two places: under the control of the Friedkins or in administration - the latter because some other chancer will take us over and eventually lead us to that sad abode.

 

[bluestevon]

Two things mate:

1/ surely Friedkin would have been well aware of the confusion over who the 777 debt is owed to before asking for an exclusivity period with Moshiri

2/ Friedkin: he might well be a level head who could provide good governance again. But for me it's a matter of the trajectory of his investment at Roma as providing a guide to their likely resources they could throw at Everton and also the model of ownership - being part of a number of clubs in his stable. He sounds like he'd be a serious businessman for Everton to have, but I genuinely doubt whether he's been after that.

On the first part Dave, then yes he'll have for sure known about the issues, but until he got to see the nuts and bolts he'd just know the same as any of us do - the parts in the public domain. He didn't have the interest rates, the exact terms and clauses/securities and things like the early repayment penalty to pay back the loan (I'm guessing here but got the feeling that this will be astoundingly high) same goes for all of the other loans etc even stuff like various sponsorship deals etc, now he has a complete understanding of everything.

2. I don't think he'd turn us into some new man city mate, I think what he would do is clear all the toxic stuff out, including remaining jobs for the old boys network, turn us into a long term sustainable business that can grow organically and be on a sound financial footing whilst steadily growing.

Right now we need that I'd say more than taking a punt on some arab sheikh.

We won't fix the problems throughout the organisation by trying to throw money at it, we need to simply become a properly ran organisation hiring the best people for the roles and with a coherent vision and strategy to stabilise, then build and grow over the next ten- twenty years. [Poor language removed] off the decades of cronyism and deals with friends or shady companies, get back to being a well run respected club first and foremost .

 

[bluestevon]

There are always possible solutions to any negotiation impasses but it always takes compromise and usually some significant change of circumstance. TFG and any other US based potential buyer will be the most sensitive and wary about US lawsuits, potential federal investigations etc. but any legitimate buyer should certainly want more clarity than there is now. If it was me I’d seek a legal indemnity from Moshiri and 777/A-Cap against any financial consequences (fines, legal fees, court costs etc.)

Might someone other than TFG be prepared to accept more risk? Possibly. Should they? Probably not. TFG has actually strengthened my view they would be a competent owner by making a grown-up decision. I’d be more wary of any potential buyer who was not extremely cautious about this mess.

So it might turn out to be a waiting game. Unless the lawsuits and wider potential investigative threats are resolved in the next few months I would suspect that we will be no further forward with a potential new buyer and thus have to sell players in January or June for cash flow. Having said that I am very wary of the extremist negative positions some have taken. It is bad but it is not irredeemable. We need the US authorities to get a move on!

I wanted them anyway, them walking away made me want them even more as frankly it showed straight away they are not amateurs but serious and understand what the hell they are doing.

 

[Blue_Berry]

This could be our salvation. Leadenhall, as investment fund managers, will want this resolved to their favour as quickly as possible too where they act on behalf of their underlying clients. In addition, the publicity on them wont be welcome. The long arm of the US lawmakers will equally be adding to the heavy costs A-CAP will be suffering where, presumably, their own underlying clients are fleeing at pace given the publicity 777 has brought to their own door.

So best outcome is A-CAP and Leadenhall agree to negotiate with future buyers of Everton on their legacy 777 loan as well as whoever buys the rest of the stable of clubs 777 did end up acquiring. The more legal costs accumulating on the part of A-CAP at present, the better then.

Tbh mate very little chance of this happening, unless APAC actually sold their EFC loan to Leadenhall, which is the least likely scenario. More likely is that ACAP went to Leadenhall to fund their loan to EFC, locking a good margin in by offering up some other security.

Leadenhall has launched an aggressive claim against ACAP because they thought they had first call on this security, but it turned out the security was already charged out to another lender, as I understand it.

Assuming EFCs loan from 777 was unsecured, then Leadenhall are unlikely to use any resources to strike a deal with a future buyer of EFC. They will just pursue their claim over the security offered by APAC. Only if they have become the new creditors to EFC might they entertain a negotiation with us, IMHO.

 

[malcson]

It seems that the 777/A-Cap loan is the problem because 777/A-Cap have had their assets frozen and cannot do any business on them other than at their full book value. I am assuming that the interest on these loans is very high (originally would have been a bridging loan and converted in some way after a 777 takeover), also probably have a high cost to exit early. So potential buyers won't want to continue paying the interest rates on the existing loan and have no way to negotiate with the holders of the debt to arrive at a mutually satisfactory outcome as it is not even clear who will legally be the party to negotiate with.

 

[davek]

On the first part Dave, then yes he'll have for sure known about the issues, but until he got to see the nuts and bolts he'd just know the same as any of us do - the parts in the public domain. He didn't have the interest rates, the exact terms and clauses/securities and things like the early repayment penalty to pay back the loan (I'm guessing here but got the feeling that this will be astoundingly high) same goes for all of the other loans etc even stuff like various sponsorship deals etc, now he has a complete understanding of everything.

2. I don't think he'd turn us into some new man city mate, I think what he would do is clear all the toxic stuff out, including remaining jobs for the old boys network, turn us into a long term sustainable business that can grow organically and be on a sound financial footing whilst steadily growing.

Right now we need that I'd say more than taking a punt on some arab sheikh.

We won't fix the problems throughout the organisation by trying to throw money at it, we need to simply become a properly ran organisation hiring the best people for the roles and with a coherent vision and strategy to stabilise, then build and grow over the next ten- twenty years. [Poor language removed] off the decades of cronyism and deals with friends or shady companies, get back to being a well run respected club first and foremost .

I'm not sure I believe that mate.

He'll have a lot of contacts in the world of investment and top-class business lawyers and it beggars belief to me that he wouldn't know from both the 777 / A-Cap side (and Leadenhall claims) AND the Everton side of the deal in abundant detail prior to getting exclusivity.

If he's backed off to see if EFC is or could be embroiled in some nefarious money laundering operation then maybe that's spooked them, but that looks a mile off Everton and all very very indirect.

No mate. He's either a/ shat his kecks at the prospect of taking us on, or b/ never been in it for the whole shooting match in any case and wanted to cherry pick.

 

[Cake]

It seems that the 777/A-Cap loan is the problem because 777/A-Cap have had their assets frozen and cannot do any business on them other than at their full book value. I am assuming that the interest on these loans is very high (originally would have been a bridging loan and converted in some way after a 777 takeover), also probably have a high cost to exit early. So potential buyers won't want to continue paying the interest rates on the existing loan and have no way to negotiate with the holders of the debt to arrive at a mutually satisfactory outcome as it is not even clear who will legally be the party to negotiate with.

So A-Cap are saying they gave the money to 777 who then gave it to us and 777 are saying no you didn't we stole it from somewhere else?

 

[micknick]

Have a strong feeling that we end up being owned by Friedkin.

 

[Goat]

Have a strong feeling that we end up being owned by Friedkin.

I suspect somebody else will move ahead of them.

Moshiri cant afford to wait and neither can Everton, we have bills to pay.