Who's next after Benitez - Poll reset 25th Jan

[catcherintherye]

Nothing illustrated the modern game better than How many where calking fir Arteta to be sacked early season at Arsenal - and a lot of clubs would have, by sticking with him they've got a very good young manager fir possibly the long term now

I think both are true really. We have to keep managers longer term, and be more patient. This process will be helped by having a stronger DOF who communicates better and a manager who is seen to take less short term decisions. A big part of Moyes, and to a degree Martinez getting time, was they talked a good game, and you could see they were attempting to think longer term.

The flip is though, we cannot get sucked into relegation dogfights. It's a relatively small objective, but people will get twitchy.

In honesty, Benitez, Silva and Koeman can have both complaints. All of them at or about 1 point per game between 10-20 games into a season, and I'm not sure there is anywhere to go. We cant risk relegation.

It's also partially why, with any new manager, in terms of options I've discarded inexperienced foreign names, however high their ceiling might be. Theres just too much risk on the downside now.

 

[Kev The Rat]

Nothing illustrated the modern game better than How many where calking fir Arteta to be sacked early season at Arsenal - and a lot of clubs would have, by sticking with him they've got a very good young manager fir possibly the long term now

Sorry there is a world of difference between a guy who won an FA cup in his first season, finished 8th twice and the car crash regimes we have been through

Certainly if we could get anywhere near Artetas initial results we’d be happy to let him carry on with the ‘project’

 

[Kev The Rat]

Its why I'd go for Lampard, think he's just more driven (no pun intended) than Rooney is - there playing careers and personal lives kinda illustrate that.

Lampard made the absolute most out of a playing career where as Rooney rode natural talent entirely (which he eroded with his lifestyle)

I’d also go for Lampard due to his experience of managing at the top level

 

[bluestevon]

Sorry there is a world of difference between a guy who won an FA cup in his first season, finished 8th twice and the car crash regimes we have been through

Certainly if we could get anywhere near Artetas initial results we’d be happy to let him carry on with the ‘project’

Wasn't saying there is a comparison with us, was using it as an illustration about a bad set of results can instantly have people calling fur them to be sacked

 

[bluestevon]

I’d also go for Lampard due to his experience of managing at the top level

He had two jobs which both had a fair bit of pressure on them - he did acceptable in both (most young managers bomb in there early days) he also cones across as someone who'd learn from mistakes and that's for sure sonething we've been lacking for a long time.

Even the fact if he did a great job is not be as worried about him jumping ship as the two jobs he'd do that fir are Chelsea (he'd have to do something special to get back there) and West Ham maybe (Moyes will be their long term) so at least wed have a bit of continuity for a period

 

[catcherintherye]

Its why I'd go for Lampard, think he's just more driven (no pun intended) than Rooney is - there playing careers and personal lives kinda illustrate that.

Lampard made the absolute most out of a playing career where as Rooney rode natural talent entirely (which he eroded with his lifestyle)

Lampard was a great pro and all of that is true, but as a manager I dont really see it mate. At Derby he had (relatively speaking) loads of money and didnt get them promoted (but did well to get them into the top 6). No issues with his job there, but I'd say he did decently but not much more.

At Chelsea, I think he underwhelmed. When they came to Goodison a couple of years ago, they were ran off the park by us. I thought they were soft. In his 1st season he got less points than Sarri got, and in his 2nd season, he had them in about 6th. Tuchel has come in, won them the CL and had them on 2ppg form in that time (so title challenging form). Hes only added Lukaku, who in honesty hasnt worked out.

Long story short, I think it's hard to say Lampard didn't under achieve with those players. There was lots of good that he did too, he has "name recognition" (which does matter, as like with Gerrard, and Rooney people will come to play for him) but I cant shake this idea that he under achieved at Chelsea.

The other concern, is he has been at 2 clubs at the right end of the table. This situation is completely different. Rooney's experience, of managing a bigger sh1tshow than here, and having a record not too dissimilar to Lampard at Derby is astonishing. Theres a credible case hes MOTY at Derby. Hes taken a group of players that would have been akin to Norwich or Newcastle in the PL, with a 21 point deduction, and got them to perform like a side in 8/9th in the PL.

People sort of say we wouldnt notice him if he wasnt Wayne Rooney, but honestly I think that's not true at all. I sort of think because its Wayne Rooney, and for whatever reason people dont want "jobs for the boys" and understandably because of many of his antics, people are underestimating what he has done at Derby. The fact he stuck around, and didnt let them fold, in his 1st season in management, is a big plus for me. Hes found solutions to problems.

I see Lampard, and hes only really known well structured clubs. I really worry he drowns here.

That's my thoughts though. Like honestly I'm not sure I want either, but if it was 1, for me it would be Rooney. I think this jobs for the boys stuff had to be looked at, Rooney could have easily come back, and just been an academy coach here and taken the easy option. It probably at United too. He didnt, he went and cut his teeth, in a eally tough spot. Could have walked away from Derby knowing hed almost certainly have a relegation on his record, hut didnt. He makes a lot of mistakes, but I think that says a lot about the character of the fella really.

 

[Ian]

Tell me again how good Lampard is...

 

[dutchblue54]

Hope and think we find out more later this weekend. Need a new manager in so he can still do something in the window

 

[COYB75]

I think both are true really. We have to keep managers longer term, and be more patient. This process will be helped by having a stronger DOF who communicates better and a manager who is seen to take less short term decisions. A big part of Moyes, and to a degree Martinez getting time, was they talked a good game, and you could see they were attempting to think longer term.

The flip is though, we cannot get sucked into relegation dogfights. It's a relatively small objective, but people will get twitchy.

In honesty, Benitez, Silva and Koeman can have both complaints. All of them at or about 1 point per game between 10-20 games into a season, and I'm not sure there is anywhere to go. We cant risk relegation.

It's also partially why, with any new manager, in terms of options I've discarded inexperienced foreign names, however high their ceiling might be. Theres just too much risk on the downside now.

Not sure I see the value of a DoF unless we can sure they operate with complete authority. I can’t see how that was evident with Brands. The illogical recruitment process stank of interference from above. Until we can be sure that Mosh and the board will leave footballing matters to the DoF then it’s a pointless appointment. Mosh just doesn’t seem to grasp football at all. Possible too many people in his ear or he just can’t help but be swayed by big names. Please let him get this right.

 

[Ian]

For me there is only 1 appointment if the board want to be seen with joined up and logical thinking... And that is Wayne Rooney.

Big name to appease Moshiri
One of Kenwrights Luvvies and former player, came through the academy.
Would command instant respect from the players
Evertonian, would unite the fan base and have Goodison rocking to its foundations
Ferguson as number 2 having more influence than previously, I think with these 2 youd get some serious commitment
Then appoint a DoF to bring the right profile of player.

This structure and management team could last for a few years, I honestly believe that, put us back on the map.

Get it done Everton!

That's the least joined-up, logical choice.

 

[Eggs]

…..Ferguson pushed out of the top 2 in the betting as Lampard support continues but the market suggests the bookies don’t have a clue and nothing is imminent.

 

[Ian]

Fonseca is another good candidate currently out of work. Wonder if we've showed an interest?

 

[bluestevon]

Lampard was a great pro and all of that is true, but as a manager I dont really see it mate. At Derby he had (relatively speaking) loads of money and didnt get them promoted (but did well to get them into the top 6). No issues with his job there, but I'd say he did decently but not much more.

At Chelsea, I think he underwhelmed. When they came to Goodison a couple of years ago, they were ran off the park by us. I thought they were soft. In his 1st season he got less points than Sarri got, and in his 2nd season, he had them in about 6th. Tuchel has come in, won them the CL and had them on 2ppg form in that time (so title challenging form). Hes only added Lukaku, who in honesty hasnt worked out.

Long story short, I think it's hard to say Lampard didn't under achieve with those players. There was lots of good that he did too, he has "name recognition" (which does matter, as like with Gerrard, and Rooney people will come to play for him) but I cant shake this idea that he under achieved at Chelsea.

The other concern, is he has been at 2 clubs at the right end of the table. This situation is completely different. Rooney's experience, of managing a bigger sh1tshow than here, and having a record not too dissimilar to Lampard at Derby is astonishing. Theres a credible case hes MOTY at Derby. Hes taken a group of players that would have been akin to Norwich or Newcastle in the PL, with a 21 point deduction, and got them to perform like a side in 8/9th in the PL.

People sort of say we wouldnt notice him if he wasnt Wayne Rooney, but honestly I think that's not true at all. I sort of think because its Wayne Rooney, and for whatever reason people dont want "jobs for the boys" and understandably because of many of his antics, people are underestimating what he has done at Derby. The fact he stuck around, and didnt let them fold, in his 1st season in management, is a big plus for me. Hes found solutions to problems.

I see Lampard, and hes only really known well structured clubs. I really worry he drowns here.

That's my thoughts though. Like honestly I'm not sure I want either, but if it was 1, for me it would be Rooney. I think this jobs for the boys stuff had to be looked at, Rooney could have easily come back, and just been an academy coach here and taken the easy option. It probably at United too. He didnt, he went and cut his teeth, in a eally tough spot. Could have walked away from Derby knowing hed almost certainly have a relegation on his record, hut didnt. He makes a lot of mistakes, but I think that says a lot about the character of the fella really.

Fair points about both mate as always.

As a response though - I'd point out wierdly Rooney kinda has zero pressure, everybody expected them to go down and by a big margin, so in essence he had a free swing at it (his record last season with more pressure was atrocious though) sticking with them is for sure a huge plus point, but again if he ditches them now, what's that say about that?

At Chelsea Lampard is a hard one to judge, the transfer ban fir any new manager is gonna be more difficult as it means they can't bring in players that suit what they want or need for a system. He compensated for that by really trusting in the younger players - with massive benefits from that being reaped now by Tuchel.
HIm wanting certain players he got overuled on most notably Rice also shows he knew what they needed.

Big negatives were he played a system and stuck by it even when it got 'found out' but can say the same about Arteta early season with there run, difference being Chelsea don't give the time arsenal sometimes do so we'll never know if it would have turned around or he would have altered to be more pragmatic - other negative is he found it hard to deal with some established big name players when leaving them out the team and maybe that's understandable given he likely played with some and was not long ago a player himself in the other end of those conversations.

 

[Marius57]

Wasn't saying there is a comparison with us, was using it as an illustration about a bad set of results can instantly have people calling fur them to be sacked

Not sure he ever went on a run of 1 win in 13 did he? With 6 points from 36? Bad runs are understandable and acceptable, but a bad run that lasts just shy of half a season isn't just a bad run anymore. If he had done a run like that, he would have been sacked.

 

[catcherintherye]

Fair points about both mate as always.

As a response though - I'd point out wierdly Rooney kinda has zero pressure, everybody expected them to go down and by a big margin, so in essence he had a free swing at it (his record last season with more pressure was atrocious though) sticking with them is for sure a huge plus point, but again if he ditches them now, what's that say about that?

At Chelsea Lampard is a hard one to judge, the transfer ban fir any new manager is gonna be more difficult as it means they can't bring in players that suit what they want or need for a system. He compensated for that by really trusting in the younger players - with massive benefits from that being reaped now by Tuchel.
HIm wanting certain players he got overuled on most notably Rice also shows he knew what they needed.

Big negatives were he played a system and stuck by it even when it got 'found out' but can say the same about Arteta early season with there run, difference being Chelsea don't give the time arsenal sometimes do so we'll never know if it would have turned around or he would have altered to be more pragmatic - other negative is he found it hard to deal with some established big name players when leaving them out the team and maybe that's understandable given he likely played with some and was not long ago a player himself in the other end of those conversations.

Yes agree with much of that.

In fairness there was little pressure from a footballing/club standpoint, but you have to say hes handled it well. Most people with no pressure tend to do a Daniel Farke, play some ridiculous experimental system and lose loads of games. I like the fact he has been quite pragmatic and clearly got into the players that they can stay up.

I do think there was a lot pressure on Rooney though. Hes not a massively liked figure, much of that is his own fault like, but lots of people would have been waiting to write him off if they got relegated, particularly if he collapsed. Let's be honest here, if he "did a Farke", got 25 points or whatever there would have been little mitigation given. So even if you were being cautious, youd have to ay hes grasped the task at hand, and realised what was needed to turn things around.

Hes kind of the anti- Lampard for me, that I have no idea what he can do beyond that. Theres no evidence. Hes managed a crisis very well, but what would he be like once that phase was navigated.

Lampard is sort of the opposite to me, I worry about him in a crisis, but I suspect, a bit like Arteta, if hes given time and stability he may do ok. Hes did well ish at Derby (I'd not say outstanding but did well) and you're right to say he put some processes in place at Chelsea. I'll be honest, I'm not sure how much it was Lampard that helped Tuchel, I dont think Lampard ever got much out of your Havertz and Werners, who Tuchel turned around. However he did blood younger players, which is a plus. I just worry about the pinch point we are in. Chelsea, and Derby when he was there were well run orgs. At present we are not, and I dont think it's a great dressing room. It's not inconceivable we go down, and I suppose I just want that door shutting.

So Rooney feels the better fit now, but Lampard may be someone who comes into the frame in the summer for me. What I'll also say, is he has better name recognition than Potter. Potter could well be a better coach, but players, and particularly young players will come and play for Lampard ahead of Potter.