6 + 2 Point Deductions

[blueblue]

Surely Forest will get more points deducted than us in the next phase.

The PL have used Everton to set the benchmark, they can't now apply different rules to other clubs and hope to stay out of the courts, it won't be just Everton looking at this. This also affects other clubs.

 

[bluenorthwarrior]

I'm not in any way qualified to interpret this, but when I try and read it, I would be betting on us getting hit again with the 2nd charge.

I read two things from that:

• Not allowing us to use 'trend' as a mitigating factor due to years 1 and 2 both being above £50m loss so a reduction of loss in year 3 is not really a trend.
• Disclosing incorrect information is an aggravating factor, albeit an innocent mistake.

Both of these will be different in the next charge - we will have two years worth of positive trend (I assume), and we have disclosed accounts in accordance with the rules. So even before we make the double jeopardy argument we have more mitigation and less aggravating factors. I firmly believe the PL and EFC both want to make the second charge effectively a non-punishment and take the heat out of this and everyone can move on.

I wouldn't however fancy being Forest right now.

 

[MIKE85]

What do the club say?​

Everton did not hide their dismay with the Premier League and their belief that the organisation is making up regulatory practices as it goes along. A strong statement said: “The Premier League does not have guidelines which prevent a club being sanctioned for alleged breaches in financial periods which have already been subject to punishment, unlike other governing bodies, including the EFL. As a result, and because of the Premier League’s new commitment to deal with such matters ‘in-season’, the club is in a position where it has had no option but to submit a PSR calculation which remains subject to change, pending the outcome of the appeal. The club must now defend another Premier League complaint which includes the very same financial periods for which it has already been sanctioned, before that appeal has even been heard. The club takes the view that this results from a clear deficiency in the Premier League’s rules.” Everton also believe the £105m threshold is outdated and has not taken into account the inflation of wages and transfer fees over the past 10 years. The Premier League is changing the PSR rules in August.

What could the punishment be if found guilty?​

A fine, a transfer embargo or another points deduction. As Everton’s statement mentions, there is no rule to prevent double jeopardy in the Premier League. Therefore, the club could be docked points for a second time this season despite November’s 10-point punishment covering 75% of the period that the latest charge relates to. Everton have spoken with the Premier League about the risk of double jeopardy and bringing in measures to prevent it, as the EFL has done, but have been informed the final decision will rest with the commission that hears their latest case.


In regards to EFL rules and double jeopardy.

Thx mate. But how does the double jeopardy come into play? I thought the second charge was for a different three-year rolling time frame (2020–23)?

Feck me I need a drink!

 

[matty1878]

Here's hoping that because part of the most recent accounts we have been charged on overlapped a time period in the previous accounts which have now been dealt with and punished, the overlap section is discarded and removes any breach and charge. Not holding my breath though because I can just imagine Masters sitting their laughing his head off smugly muttering something like 4 points given back and another 6 to be deducted soon.

surely he can’t mate

 

[Tony101]

Disgusting with that wanted 10 back. They are going to manufacture a relegation battle that goes to the wire. Then change the rules next season so they don’t have to punish teams like Chelsea.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Any news lads

I reckon there will be an announcement today or tomorrow....don't understand what the hold up is.

 

[Walken]

Bobbles mate saying he doesnt think we qre in breach and Forests deduction will be 12.

Seen a few supposed ITK's saying Forests breach is a big one and they are done for.

Think I'll be keeping my powder dry and assume its 6 for both, plan for the worst and hope for the best sort of thing

 

[ToffeeTim]

We also lost USM sponsorship.

Yes, something that I would expect to see taken as mitigation.

We are possibly stuck in a vicious cycle now though. Clearly we aren't getting a sporting advantage - in fact the complete opposite - from having to pay so much interest on debt. But we could end up failing the rules for a long time, especially while we have no certainty on the ownership situation.

so do they just keep giving us points deductions for something we are stuck with, and clearly isn't helping us be successful at playing football?

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

If Forest now only get 6 points, given that their breach is supposed to be a hell of a lot larger than ours, I wonder what Everton’s reaction will be to that?

Wouldn’t surprise me if Forest get the initial 6 pts and a load more for going over, they’ll appeal it saying there were a load of mitigating circumstances and it will then be reduced to the initial 6 pts for breaching the rules.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

I read two things from that:

• Not allowing us to use 'trend' as a mitigating factor due to years 1 and 2 both being above £50m loss so a reduction of loss in year 3 is not really a trend.
• Disclosing incorrect information is an aggravating factor, albeit an innocent mistake.

Both of these will be different in the next charge - we will have two years worth of positive trend (I assume), and we have disclosed accounts in accordance with the rules. So even before we make the double jeopardy argument we have more mitigation and less aggravating factors. I firmly believe the PL and EFC both want to make the second charge effectively a non-punishment and take the heat out of this and everyone can move on.

I wouldn't however fancy being Forest right now.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[BlueandBald]

Forrest are delighted with this - they are saying that they are defo staying up if they are only hit with 6 points, prefer to be us then them like.

We went over by 19 million. Do you know what Forest went over by? I believe its alot more than ours. Our punishment works out 3 million to breach and a point for every 5 million over.

 

[maccavennie]

Considering our debts, strongly suspect a 3rd charge is looming.

Can see us getting charged every season now.

We are top of the league I said we are top of the league

What league?

The charge league of course!

 

[barneygumble]

Look at their team and purchases. They can field three teams. Could be even stephen.

All of it is irrelevant.

Ultimately the only thing which comes to it is the fact they overspent.

From reading the report, Masters stance that a point was worth 5 points has been clearly rejected.

So the punishment seems to be measured at breaching the rules, not by how much.

 

[blueblue]

can you appeal an appeal

and the second IF they did it

appeal that?

but forest should be up sheet creak

I think we will find this out shortly i.e if there is an another avenue for us to challenge the ruling, is going to the courts possible ?

 

[JohnRoss23]

So is the 2nd charge dropped ?