Poll : Martinez Post Newcastle

[Goat]

Moyes finished 17th in his second season.

And he was sacked when United were in 8th.

Different times and a different club.

 

[willo30]

Moyes finished 17th in his second season.

Moyes didn't have possibly the best squad of players since the 80's at his disposal.

 

[MikeH72]

The football hasnt changed, the tempo has and the players are suddenly playing with confidence, so instead of passing backwards, they are looking forwards, players are more willing to make runs.

That and we're playing players that actually want to make forward passes, like Gibson and (dare I say it) Osman

 

[catcherintherye]

I dont think he's changed it as much as the message finally getting through to the players.

Coleman said in radio interview before the game yesterday that Martinez tore into them at HT against Kiev over the failure to start out with the tempo they then did adopt later - but only after they fell behind and had the crowd howling for that change. It's clear from that Martinez is not getting this message across forcefully enough, often enough. I dont know who he has in the coaching staff he relies on to give these players a kick up the arse but whomever it is they are doing a sh1t job and need binning.

On the sideways/forward thing: I wouldn't get embroiled or obsessive about that. To me that's just a matter of movement ahead being good, bad or indifferent. If there's no one shifting their arses into space (or players ahead just dont have the gumption to find space, to be more precise) then necessarily you get more sideways passing and ball retention. This essentially goes down to personnel. Players need bringing in who can free themselves of markers and get on the ball that will be fed through to them (and the flip side of that is that we need quality play out the back from a CD unit worthy of the system who can give us that impetus straight away from the moment Howard rolls the ball out to them).

I think there is a lot in that. I do wonder how much is bad tactics and how much is failure to implement what the manager wants. Part of that as you say has probably come from Martinez who may not have got it across clearly enough.

If the opposition are "set" then you are right, it's about the right movement. What I would say though, is when counter attacking the ability to move the ball forward makes a big difference. IF we take our 3rd goal yesterday (or even the incident for the red card) that came from our ability to pass the ball forward quickly and players being willing to carry the ball forward at pace. (Even the first goal yesterday, while fortuitous involves a forward pass and run, followed by a shot).
Particularly the first two incidents wouldn't have occurred if we had passed sideways for too long as the opposition filter back in.

Clearly opposing sides feel they can come and press high up the pitch against us. The perfect antidote to that is to move the ball beyond them more quickly. The nuance and balance in this though is that you don't just do it every time.

I do think we need a new centre back, but I have to say (even though I am in a minority) I do quite like Alcaraz when he's fit. In honesty I think we are ok if we have either him or Stones with Gibson in front of them. I think the problem comes when we play Jagielka and Barry in the same side when we are at home and going to have a fair amount of possession. If we can keep Gibson fit he will be an important player for us. Over time I hope Barkley and Besic will be able to add this creativity.

I am yet to be convinced two ball playing centre halves are entirely necessary.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Moyes finished 17th in his second season.

You cannot possibly compare them two. Moyes took over a team who regularly finished in and around 15th, Martinez is managing a team who regularly finished in the top 6 and is in the Delottie Top 20 richest clubs.

 

[davek]

I think there is a lot in that. I do wonder how much is bad tactics and how much is failure to implement what the manager wants. Part of that as you say has probably come from Martinez who may not have got it across clearly enough.

If the opposition are "set" then you are right, it's about the right movement. What I would say though, is when counter attacking the ability to move the ball forward makes a big difference. IF we take our 3rd goal yesterday (or even the incident for the red card) that came from our ability to pass the ball forward quickly and players being willing to carry the ball forward at pace. (Even the first goal yesterday, while fortuitous involves a forward pass and run, followed by a shot).
Particularly the first two incidents wouldn't have occurred if we had passed sideways for too long as the opposition filter back in.

Clearly opposing sides feel they can come and press high up the pitch against us. The perfect antidote to that is to move the ball beyond them more quickly. The nuance and balance in this though is that you don't just do it every time.

I do think we need a new centre back, but I have to say (even though I am in a minority) I do quite like Alcaraz when he's fit. In honesty I think we are ok if we have either him or Stones with Gibson in front of them. I think the problem comes when we play Jagielka and Barry in the same side when we are at home and going to have a fair amount of possession. If we can keep Gibson fit he will be an important player for us. Over time I hope Barkley and Besic will be able to add this creativity.

I am yet to be convinced two ball playing centre halves are entirely necessary.

I dont disagree what the catalyst has been in the last two games: the precision forward of passes from deep (in fact, you can add Gibson's ball into Mirallas against YBs to that, so maybe it began to occur sooner). It's also chimed in with Lukaku getting his confidence back: if he's in a marauding mood then he'll roam across the opposition backline providing a big out ball target and do a lot with the ball - either back to goal or putting it ahead of him to run onto.

I honestly dont believe Martinez has previously been clamping that type of movement and passing and preferring them to hold onto it instead. In the summer (as well as some key acquisitions) there has to be a big conversation at Everton as to what exactly is expected of the team in terms of progressing moves when we're effectively closed down ahead of us. As you say, we cant play balls forward like that all the time, and if playing it across the back four and holding possession is going to be such a massive issue, then a solution to that must be found.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Still amazed that Rom took that peno.
Only positive thing that...there might be something going on in the dressingroom...might very well be that Baines didnt want to take it because he has been injured...or it might be that Bobby wants Rom to start to take responsibility and become a spearhead of doom

 

[catcherintherye]

I dont disagree what the catalyst has been in the last two games: the precision forward of passes from deep (in fact, you can add Gibson's ball into Mirallas against YBs to that, so maybe it began to occur sooner). It's also chimed in with Lukaku getting his confidence back: if he's in a marauding mood then he'll roam across the opposition backline providing a big out ball target and do a lot with the ball - either back to goal or putting it ahead of him to run onto.

I honestly dont believe Martinez has previously been clamping that type of movement and passing and preferring them to hold onto it instead. In the summer (as well as some key acquisitions) there has to be a big conversation at Everton as to what exactly is expected of the team in terms of progressing moves when we're effectively closed down ahead of us. As you say, we cant play balls forward like that all the time, and if playing it across the back four and holding possession is going to be such a massive issue, then a solution to that must be found.

In all honesty they are different things. The best teams can do both. Sometimes by working it around you can get to the opponents half quite easily. if they opponents stand off you can tire them down. There are a lot of advantages to it.

I can see something coming together at the end of the season. People finding suitable roles for themselves. I think in the summer we will see those who want to stay and be part of a rejuvenation next season, and some of the disruptive influences may go. Bring on next season.

 

[meagher94]

I stand ready to be corrected but I can't recall us starting a game with two out and out strikers last season.

Yeah you're probably right there. But the directness and the quick passing and movement? That was all there last season, and it was even better then.

My point is, I don't think yesterday was the huge change in Martinez's style it's being made out to be. It wasn't long ago we were playing similarly in the league and not to mention we've been playing more direct in Europe all season.

It's like some people seem to think Martinez actually wants us to play some completely non-penetrative backwards/sidewards style, and that's his idea of good football. That's simply untrue.

 

[nsno-chris]

Hilarious

Precision football from the back.

Referred to has hoofball not so long ago when others called for it.

Some people

 

[USABlue]

Still amazed that Rom took that peno.
Only positive thing that...there might be something going on in the dressingroom...might very well be that Baines didnt want to take it because he has been injured...or it might be that Bobby wants Rom to start to take responsibility and become a spearhead of doom

think it was more so building up Rom then taking something away from Baines. Rom's been in great form and had made 2 pens when baines was out

 

[Khalekan]

Yeah you're probably right there. But the directness and the quick passing and movement? That was all there last season, and it was even better then.

My point is, I don't think yesterday was the huge change in Martinez's style it's being made out to be. It wasn't long ago we were playing similarly in the league and not to mention we've been playing more direct in Europe all season.

It's like some people seem to think Martinez actually wants us to play some completely non-penetrative backwards/sidewards style, and that's his idea of good football. That's simply untrue.

To me, that was chalk and cheese even to last year's style, never mind this year's.

I never saw McCarthy in as many advanced positions as I did yesterday.

Rom was rampaging around like the latter day Drogba we thought he could be.

But that's just me.....it's all about opinions

 

[USABlue]

Barring a Europa League win, how can he justify a season where we haven't finished in the Top 7 and most likely, top half?

He'll have until next Christmas to turn it around or he'll be out.

i can see the top half argument but we shouldn't have expected to be a lock for top 7. While we spent 30 odd mil, most of it went on a player who was already in the squad so we didn't really add to the squad outside of besic while the teams who finished below us like Utd added alot to their squads. we should be competing with Spurs most of the time. I agree though we should be competing in the top 8 next season

 

[LinekersLegs]

Hilarious

Precision football from the back.

Referred to has hoofball not so long ago when others called for it.

Some people

But there is a difference between the two things, bit like when LVG was trying to describe his belief that what he was doing during games wasn't hoofball but instead was long pass football.

We mixed it up last season and used it, would you call this hoofball or just intelligently spotting an opportunity?


Think one of the reasons we've started being effective at it again is Jags's confidence - he was trying it earlier in the season and it just went straight to an opponent if he didn't shank it into touch.

 

[davek]

Hilarious

Precision football from the back.

Referred to has hoofball not so long ago when others called for it.

Some people

You'd probably view what happened yesterday as a Moyes-type of approach.

Pffffft!