[POLL] Should Ronald Koeman be sacked?

Time for him to go

  • Total voters
    952
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tim cahill said:
Look again at the squad we had in Martinez's last season. We only had about 6 players worth keeping long term and most of them wanted out.
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And that is why we pay this man 6m plus give him vast amounts of money to rebuild the squad. His signings have been very uninspiring and he has made us at best mediocre.
All I expect from my team is a good standard of football and total effort, we are not getting either at this moment in time. We need change and RK can make them changes if he doesn't well we know what the change will be
 

Lowste said:
And that is why we pay this man 6m plus give him vast amounts of money to rebuild the squad. His signings have been very uninspiring and he has made us at best mediocre.
All I expect from my team is a good standard of football and total effort, we are not getting either at this moment in time. We need change and RK can make them changes if he doesn't well we know what the change will be
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Change that in bold to relegation fodder if he stays!
 

We aren't going to go through the Europa stages, Lyon are a decent team, we are dreadful, every player has very little confidence, Vlasic still has a few ounces of it as he was the last in, we are worryingly close to the bottom and we need time to sort it out, Unsworth isn't the answer BTW. Sack RK now to give us a chance of a top half finish.
 
I actually think we can stabilise and get top half. This is not a great league. In fact, apart from 6/7 outfits its appalling if compared with other top leagues like Italy and Spain. But Koeman will only be getting us from terrible to mediocre. The money spent demanded much, much more than that but has been wasted by and large.

It's a failed project. Koeman was wrong for Everton and Everton was wrong for him. He must have thought he could coast it here with hardly any pressure. He badly calculated if he did think that.

I'm shocked by him, tbf. I wanted him in as boss out of the candidates we had to choose from two summers ago. But seeing him operate close up has me concluding he's a bit dim and a bit of a dinosaur. Never in a month of Sundays is he the manager we require at this stage of our history. A wise and brave owner would cut through the Gordian Knot and end this right now. Unfortunately we have some gormless divvy who prefers to chat bubbles with a clown on TalkSport about a "superstar manager".

It's enough to make you weep.
 
davek said:
I actually think we can stabilise and get top half. This is not a great league. In fact, apart from 6/7 outfits its appalling if compared with other top leagues like Italy and Spain. But Koeman will only be getting us from terrible to mediocre. The money spent demanded much, much more than that but has been wasted by and large.

It's a failed project. Koeman was wrong for Everton and Everton was wrong for him. He must have thought he could coast it here with hardly any pressure. He badly calculated if he did think that.

I'm shocked by him, tbf. I wanted him in as boss out of the candidates we had to choose from two summers ago. But seeing him operate close up has me concluding he's a bit dim and a bit of a dinosaur. Never in a month of Sundays is he the manager we require at this stage of our history. A wise and brave owner would cut through the Gordian Knot and end this right now. Unfortunately we have some gormless divvy who prefers to chat bubbles with a clown on TalkSport about a "superstar manager".

It's enough to make you weep.
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No mate, you were so Martinise by Martinez that you judge koeman too prematurely unfairly.

But you're dead right this season
 

davek said:
I actually think we can stabilise and get top half. This is not a great league. In fact, apart from 6/7 outfits its appalling if compared with other top leagues like Italy and Spain. But Koeman will only be getting us from terrible to mediocre. The money spent demanded much, much more than that but has been wasted by and large.

It's a failed project. Koeman was wrong for Everton and Everton was wrong for him. He must have thought he could coast it here with hardly any pressure. He badly calculated if he did think that.

I'm shocked by him, tbf. I wanted him in as boss out of the candidates we had to choose from two summers ago. But seeing him operate close up has me concluding he's a bit dim and a bit of a dinosaur. Never in a month of Sundays is he the manager we require at this stage of our history. A wise and brave owner would cut through the Gordian Knot and end this right now. Unfortunately we have some gormless divvy who prefers to chat bubbles with a clown on TalkSport about a "superstar manager".

It's enough to make you weep.
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We have a finite amount of money. We really need to ask ourselves how we can find a manager that can maximise the money we have to either a) over perform or b) win a cup competition.

In many ways we only got a fair perspective on Moyes when things went downhill under Martinez, and likewise we are probably in a far better position to judge Martinez now it's going downhill with Koeman.

Whatever people think of Moyes and Martinez, they both got the club and were respectful towards it (albeit they both picked out different aspects, Moyes the working class, local resilience and Martinez the flamboyant history). They also had a clear vision of what they were trying to do. Ultimately what Moyes delivered was dull and led to a self imposed glass ceiling, while Martinez's methods were probably ill suited to a league so heavily reliant on set plays and opponents playing the percentages more. But there was a plan, a method. We have none of that now. How does Koeman want these lads to play.

I saw a fascinating stat recently mate. Don't know if you've seen Xg information. It showed had Lukaku been as clinical as he was in Koeman's first season as Martinez's last he'd have ended up with 31 goals in open play (plus 1 pen). Essentially we made loads of chances for him and he wasn't massively clinical (whereas Koeman's Everton made far less but he finished them in a deadly way). Had Lukaku been as clinical in that last season as he was for Koeman, I think history would be radically different. You think of all those games, Leicester, 3-2, Stoke 4-3, Norwich, 1-1, Swansea 0-0, Bournemouth 3-3, Liverpool 1-1 where we were the better team and found a way not to win. I think we'd have got to Christmas in the top 4 and you never know where it would have led. Small margins.
 
catcherintherye said:
We have a finite amount of money. We really need to ask ourselves how we can find a manager that can maximise the money we have to either a) over perform or b) win a cup competition.

In many ways we only got a fair perspective on Moyes when things went downhill under Martinez, and likewise we are probably in a far better position to judge Martinez now it's going downhill with Koeman.

Whatever people think of Moyes and Martinez, they both got the club and were respectful towards it (albeit they both picked out different aspects, Moyes the working class, local resilience and Martinez the flamboyant history). They also had a clear vision of what they were trying to do. Ultimately what Moyes delivered was dull and led to a self imposed glass ceiling, while Martinez's methods were probably ill suited to a league so heavily reliant on set plays and opponents playing the percentages more. But there was a plan, a method. We have none of that now. How does Koeman want these lads to play.

I saw a fascinating stat recently mate. Don't know if you've seen Xg information. It showed had Lukaku been as clinical as he was in Koeman's first season as Martinez's last he'd have ended up with 31 goals in open play (plus 1 pen). Essentially we made loads of chances for him and he wasn't massively clinical (whereas Koeman's Everton made far less but he finished them in a deadly way). Had Lukaku been as clinical in that last season as he was for Koeman, I think history would be radically different. You think of all those games, Leicester, 3-2, Stoke 4-3, Norwich, 1-1, Swansea 0-0, Bournemouth 3-3, Liverpool 1-1 where we were the better team and found a way not to win. I think we'd have got to Christmas in the top 4 and you never know where it would have led. Small margins.
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I'm sure the extra goals from Lukaku would have dramatically transformed the last RM season. But the counter point that conceding a lot less would have done the same trick is also valid. I dont think Lukaku not scoring or lack of scoring generally did for Roberto. My perception at the time was that Lukaku was keeping him in a job!

On the identity issue: Koeman is - as you say - unlike his two predecessors. He projects nothing. Not a thing. There is no Koeman hallmark. That's not just down to a clueless playing style. It's also because he doesn't connect with the organisation. He prefers to live well away from Liverpool. How many fan functions has he done since being here? I cant recall any. Moyes and especially Martinez were very accessible. Both men had time for fans. Can you think of many times Koeman has connected like that? Does he think tweeting some nonsense is him 'cutting through' and staying in touch?

He doesn't care about the club, he doesn't care about the history of it, he doesn't care about the players, he doesn't particularly care about the fans other than to fear their judgement because he doesn't want an ignominious sacking on his CV. If he did care he'd be getting an awful lot more support right now than he is. But he's a dislikable character and no one apart from a handful of people gives a flying one about his struggles here, they just want the miserable get out. And rightly so.
 
davek said:
There is simply no comparison at all between the two managers/situations.
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Martinez brought a perennial 6-7 place team up two spots to a 5th place team and that earned him two more full seasons of below average football.

Koeman brought a team that was back-to-back 11th place finisher to 7th and people are clamoring for his outing two months into the season.

You're right, no comparing the two situations- Martinez was dealt an infinitely better hand and marginally improved results; Koeman had a much tougher task and improved the squad by a larger margin in his first year.

Anyway this isn't the Martinez thread, but I feel Koeman should get the same treatment Martinez did- a good first year should earn you time and I think (hope) the board agrees- if we don't see marked improvement by Christmas then it's time for change.

Lets be honest no matter who the manager is over the next 12 months this squad is a project, no manager worth their salt will want to come in if they see the club will abandon them at the first sign of trouble.
 

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