2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[ToffeeTim]

Got back to the vaults but my view hasn't changed.

Manager should get a full 3 seasons to build a solid side. Buy sensibly, get shut of what we don't need, then look to upgrade manager and provide funds by the new stadium arrival.

The Koeman/Walsh reign damaged us for 3 seasons. Brands not striking a balance between casting deadwood and buying quality for the years after. Chopping and changing managers every 18 months doesn't help build anything.

Personally think Ancelotti and Benitez were/are the best choices in getting blood from a stone out of this squad. Anyone else wouldve been a gamble that we can't afford to play at the moment. After stability, then we can look to go that route.

Suck it up and accept it.

Stability is a nonsense argument I'm afraid.

The club hasn't been less stable since before Moyes. The disillusionment with everything about the club is off the charts.

The manager needs to stop blaming injuries and start picking up points or he will be sacked.

 

[Steve EFC]

We literally finished midtable, not below it.

I mean, 2 of those players you mention, left under benitez' watch. One of them he actively forced out. We can't complain about losing creativity and excuse him of all fault for that when he allowed and made it happen.

I loved James pulling on the royal blue shirt for us and was gutted when he left.
But I understood why, he’s a luxury player who can’t play a full season and he struggles to fit into a system.
This isn’t good enough for us when we can’t afford to have those types of players on those salaries with our current set of circumstances.
That was a gamble to appease our Hollywood manager we had at the time.
Besides we hardly have players around him that are on his wavelength making him virtually ineffective anyway.
So I don’t accuse RB for that being a mistake either.

 

[kenada_blue]

But the club brought on losing James - they literally moved heaven and earth outside of the transfer window to get him out of the door, and the manager supported that.

Now it's not the reason for our issues but you can't then use it as an excuse as you have done there. Same as that 32-year-old footballer we aren't allowed to mention. People hated him being in the team...

The footy was tosh even when our better players were fit and relied on flashes so it's not just suddenly going to come good. DCL played 3 games and we created two chances for him. He scored one, v S'ton, and missed a one v one against Leeds. The other two were pens, which is fine, but it's not like we were free flowing in open play like some people like to imagine we are.

Don't have the squad to play free flowing football even with everyone fit. Anyone who believes that or thinks the squad could play that way under a new manager are the same that will want them sacked after 3 months.

 

[barneygumble]

Stability is a nonsense argument I'm afraid.

The club hasn't been less stable since before Moyes. The disillusionment with everything about the club is off the charts.

The manager needs to stop blaming injuries and start picking up points or he will be sacked.

You've highlighted the lack of stability, and your response to stability is to sack the manager and create more instability?

Injuries is a perfect excuse.

Look at Liverpool. Didn't have an injury for 3 years, and won a league and a european cup. Got injuries and weren't anywhere near as effective.

We've had 3 games this season with full strength side, and we played well.

I get that you hate Benitez, but he's not getting sacked, just accept it.

 

[Kev The Rat]

Is this the new narrative you are pushing? I'm genuinely intrigued you half believe what you type in the forums. If anything, all indications and ex players point to him micro managing too much they feel like robots. Dislike him all you want but try to at least make some valid points. Laughable and childish really.

im not hearing that at all here - all I am hearing is, 1.7m, too many injuries - so thats all on the players basically and nothing that the waiter can influence - how very convenient.

 

[ToffeeTim]

You've highlighted the lack of stability, and your response to stability is to sack the manager and create more instability?

Injuries is a perfect excuse.

Look at Liverpool. Didn't have an injury for 3 years, and won a league and a european cup. Got injuries and weren't anywhere near as effective.

We've had 3 games this season with full strength side, and we played well.

I get that you hate Benitez, but he's not getting sacked, just accept it.

I don't hate anyone, I just think he's a poor manager and not good enough to improve us. He will be sacked if results don't improve in the next month, just like any other manager would.

Injuries have to be dealt with, end of story. We can't keep losing and act like it doesn't matter. Liverpool still got top 4 last season, it's not like they lost every week or went 1 in 12 or anything like that. We need points and soon, there are no excuses.

 

[Egil Olsen]

But the club brought on losing James - they literally moved heaven and earth outside of the transfer window to get him out of the door, and the manager supported that.

Now it's not the reason for our issues but you can't then use it as an excuse as you have done there. Same as that 32-year-old footballer we aren't allowed to mention. People hated him being in the team...

The footy was tosh even when our better players were fit and relied on flashes so it's not just suddenly going to come good. DCL played 3 games and we created two chances for him. He scored one, v S'ton, and missed a one v one against Leeds. The other two were pens, which is fine, but it's not like we were free flowing in open play like some people like to imagine we are.

The big question is; compared to what? Of course, if you compare with Brazil in the 1986 World Cup, most people will agree with that conclusion. It is quite subjective what one thinks is good football, and here there are many different opinions.

Personally, I have been quite happy with the start of the season. We have been far more aggressive, and often won back the ball from the opponent. In addition, we have been far more direct, and created many chances after quick transitions. At the same time, we have been effective, by that I mean that we have many shots on goal based on ball possession. All this is confirmed by the statistics.

However, I agree that the development has not been positive, but it is quite clear that the negative trend correlates with injuries to key players. So I'm not very worried. On the contrary, when you see that the manager's philosophy is slowly but surely starting to be implemented on the field, it indicates that the manager is doing a good job in the training field. The players' qualities become a more relevant question here.

 

[barneygumble]

I don't hate anyone, I just think he's a poor manager and not good enough to improve us. He will be sacked if results don't improve in the next month, just like any other manager would.

Injuries have to be dealt with, end of story. We can't keep losing and act like it doesn't matter. Liverpool still got top 4 last season, it's not like they lost every week or went 1 in 12 or anything like that. We need points and soon, there are no excuses.

Liverpool lost 5 home games on the run last year, in a spell which they were ravaged by injuries to their best players.

When players start to return, and we dont have to play Rondon and the likes, things will up turn. He can only work with what he's given, and the reality is, the entire 2021, has been a shambolic mess, and that goes down to the players.

 

[kenada_blue]

Stability is a nonsense argument I'm afraid.

The club hasn't been less stable since before Moyes. The disillusionment with everything about the club is off the charts.

The manager needs to stop blaming injuries and start picking up points or he will be sacked.

So the idea of building a solid team is a nonsense arguement? That's stability. Moyes had stability as he had a core squad of 15 players who, regardless of quality, were hardly injured and the team never changed. Once we get to that point...we go nowhere under any manager in world football. Fact.

Additionally, how can you not blame injuries when we have 3 fit midfielders...two of which are never fully fit.

Brentford up next and all the park end Da's will kick off when we park the bus and play for a draw. Which is the sensible approach in our predicament away from home. But no, theyll kick off thinking we should go all out for the win, throw Dobin, Simms etc on completely forgetting we don't have a midfield or solid enough defence to do it

 

[ToffeeTim]

So the idea of building a solid team is a nonsense arguement? That's stability. Moyes had stability as he had a core squad of 15 players who, regardless of quality, were hardly injured and the team never changed. Once we get to that point...we go nowhere under any manager in world football. Fact.

Additionally, how can you not blame injuries when we have 3 fit midfielders...two of which are never fully fit.

Brentford up next and all the park end Da's will kick off when we park the bus and play for a draw. Which is the sensible approach in our predicament away from home. But no, theyll kick off thinking we should go all out for the win, throw Dobin, Simms etc on completely forgetting we don't have a midfield or solid enough defence to do it

I have no problem with us setting up defensive as long as we offer something on the break and get a positive result. I supported Ancelotti's negative tactics last year because they made us harder to beat and got some very decent results away from home.

We don't have stability under Benitez so I don't understand how keeping him will make us stable. The injuries have to be dealt with and we have to remain competitive. You can't just say we will be ok when players come back, because there might be no point all season where everyone is available. There is no guarantee we don't get further injuries or players get setbacks. What happens then?

We have the wrong manager, entirely the wrong choice. Nothing else really matters and we won't have stability until this depressing period is behind us.

 

[kenada_blue]

You've highlighted the lack of stability, and your response to stability is to sack the manager and create more instability?

Injuries is a perfect excuse.

Look at Liverpool. Didn't have an injury for 3 years, and won a league and a european cup. Got injuries and weren't anywhere near as effective.

We've had 3 games this season with full strength side, and we played well.

I get that you hate Benitez, but he's not getting sacked, just accept it.

Van Dijke got crocked and their season crumbled. 1 major player.

We have:
Docues
Gomes
Davies
Dom
Gray
Mina
Gylfi (MIA).

25 man squad is now a 17 man squad - 4 are under 23 players, 1 is a back up keeper so that's 12 senior players for a match.

Zero excuses apparently

 

[kenada_blue]

I have no problem with us setting up defensive as long as we offer something on the break and get a positive result. I supported Ancelotti's negative tactics last year because they made us harder to beat and got some very decent results away from home.

We don't have stability under Benitez so I don't understand how keeping him will make us stable. The injuries have to be dealt with and we have to remain competitive. You can't just say we will be ok when players come back, because there might be no point all season where everyone is available. There is no guarantee we don't get further injuries or players get setbacks. What happens then?

He's been here 4 months or so and unable to bring in players so of course there's going to be no stability which is why it needs time. And that not aimed at Benitez, the same thing would need to be applied to anyone we brought in.

Of course play on the counter which is his style and that maybe the case...but if the remaining squad that fit can't do that then the result ends up being what it'll be. Carlo knew that and even said something along the lines of we can't defend and attack as a unit so it's one or the other. More times the attack side we got beat. That squad hasn't changed. It has an injection of pace that has worked...but that's dwindling each game with injuries.

 

[NorthernBlue]

The expected losses brigade are rallying this morning. The to and fro in this thread is great to be fair.

 

[barneygumble]

Van Dijke got crocked and their season crumbled. 1 major player.

We have:
Docues
Gomes
Davies
Dom
Gray
Mina
Gylfi (MIA).

25 man squad is now a 17 man squad - 4 are under 23 players, 1 is a back up keeper so that's 12 senior players for a match.

Zero excuses apparently

I mean my argument was that they had spells without players like Fabinho, Henderson, Matip etc... they're fundamental to the way they play.

We've spent the every game post Brighton missing at least two of our key players in DCL, Richarlison, Mina, Doucoure and now probably add in Gray. We've even missed Pickford in a game.

You saw how ineffective Liverpool were, and they still had Salah, Mane etc... yet somehow Benitez is meant to get the players who haven't performed all year, to play well in spite of missing our core? No chance. Judge Benitez when he gets a budget, and when players return.

 

[ToffeeTim]

He's been here 4 months or so and unable to bring in players so of course there's going to be no stability which is why it needs time. And that not aimed at Benitez, the same thing would need to be applied to anyone we brought in.

Of course play on the counter which is his style and that maybe the case...but if the remaining squad that fit can't do that then the result ends up being what it'll be. Carlo knew that and even said something along the lines of we can't defend and attack as a unit so it's one or the other. More times the attack side we got beat. That squad hasn't changed. It has an injection of pace that has worked...but that's dwindling each game with injuries.

The squad is virtually the same as last year, so 10th and 59 points is the benchmark. The manager is underperforming and we are about to go on our worst run of form since 2005.

It's defending the indefensible in this thread. He needs to improve results in the next month or he needs to be sacked for poor below standard performance. No manager survives a run of 1 in 12 or 13.

Ancelotti performed far better and got criticised by a lot of the Benitez fans. People just aren't willing to accept the obvious fact that this is never going to work out.