£60 Million Chinese Deal?

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jinkyali said:
Yet on the other hand you say Moshiri must spend big on transfer deals etc ?

What's it to be this morning Dave ?
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What, it's hardly asking for the moon on a stick to want an owner to inject cash into the squad (£50M - smallish injection for this day and age) on top of player trading to make the difference to on field fortunes.

Isn't that what entrepreneurs are supposed to do: speculate to accumulate?
 
davek said:
Well, for one, and as argued above, the relationship with this Chinese group could have been one of investor rather than borrower.
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I pointed out earlier in this thread that investment has more pitfalls than borrowing.

Borrowing means we pay back with some interest.

Investment means a new person or consortium on board who will want to control the direction of the club and realise their investment at a far higher return than commercial lending.

Why do you see the latter as more attractive? It simply isn't.
 
And as a post-script, no investor in their right mind would happily stump up £4-500mm as 'equity', with no strings attached, to fund a new stadium, debt-free.

Cloud cuckoo land.
 
davek said:
What, it's hardly asking for the moon on a stick to want an owner to inject cash into the squad (£50M - smallish injection for this day and age) on top of player trading to make the difference to on field fortunes.

Isn't that what entrepreneurs are supposed to do: speculate to accumulate?
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He hasn't needed to - yet. We have player sale profits if we need them, and we have £127m of gift from the Sky gods.

Or maybe he should just do it to keep you happy?
 

davek said:
It's what Kenwright's plan was, and the objective of any other investor coming into a club.

You then have the choice to believe that Moshiri is a different kettle of fish to what we had previously or is a figure who can see the plan through. I have a lot of reservations. One of those is the squad investment. I see that as a bellwether issue.
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Okay, so as I take it from other posts you would be feeling a whole lot better about Moshiri if we post a 50M plus net spend this summer?
 
Blue_Berry said:
You want more new investors (instead of well-structured debt). With that you give away control. We actually don't need more equity right now, and that's because we have recently received some windfall income (principally from ever upward spiralling sky and premier league deals), because Moshiri has paid off expensive debt and replaced it with free debt, because we have some sharply appreciating assets which we can and will realise to generate even more income, and the whole operating structure and management quality within the club has been vastly improved from top to bottom.

The commercial deals are already coming and it will take time to build more as the new 'brand Everton' is built - and in spite of your attempt to rubbish is as 'more leveraging', the deal with the Chinese bank is very much one of the commercial deals you are looking for. There are material commercial benefits documented into it. It's a short term cash flow facility that is either (my guess) guaranteed by Moshiri himself, or for which the world's biggest bank has decided that EFC has an adequate credit profile.

And finally, if you are seriously trying to compare the prospects that the club had when theatre luvvie and boyhood blue Bill stepped into the frame with those we now face with self-made billionaire and highly successful finance director Moshiri, then I know that the only word I can possibly use for you is...

Luddite.
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They are just a series of claims. 'Control': what control do we have now over Moshiri? You seem to be divesting all responsibility for the well being of the club into his hands like he;s some benefactor-patrician. I dont care who's investing and controlling the club company. Why should I care that an Iranian businessman has the full control over the reins rather than sharing them with other institutional investors? Do you think Daniel Levy and Joe Lewis don't share power with the banks who are involved in Spurs right now, for example? The claim that we're getting better borrowing arrangements I've heard for the last decade or so under Kenwright. It's not new.
 
I think there's middle ground here. While Davek is essentially right. The model hasn't changed. The big difference is because our main shareholder has a lot more money the terms we can borrow money will be better but it also needs to be better given the money now in premiership football.

Without Moshiri we wouldn't have been able to survive in the premiership however I think it's clear now rather than being someone to propel us into the top 4 he's just someone who will be able to keep us were we have been for the last decade or so since Moyes took over.

The best of the rest.

As for appreciating assets. etc. Assets in football always appreciated. The price we sold Lineker for was a fraction of what we sold Fellaini for and now for Lukaku. The rate is obviously going up but it makes little difference because the price required to replace those players is also going up. Without actual real investment we will never break into the top 4.
 
blueboy1664 said:
There is a substantial change...for this to be agreed, we are seen to have secure ownership and sound prospects. We are at a different level from the previous partners like Vibrac etc. This is a significant milestone
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Yes we are at a different level than the VIRACY days and Yes it is a milestone
but it's the same one we passed in 1961...or one very similar

We acquired a new hardnosed businessman owner; Moores - Moshiri
We got rid of a very nice bloke but bit of a football purist; Carey - Martinez
We appointed a tough no nonsense pragmatic manager; Catterick - Koeman
We splashed the cash; West, Kay, Pickering, Ball, Kendall - Pickford, etc etc.
We had our Transfers 'Underwritten'; Moores - Chinese bank

just sayin like

Edit;
It's a truism I know but
If you are a bad risk Banks won't touch you - hence VIBRAC
If you have plenty and you don't really need to borrow it, but it's convenient - plus you're a good risk, then they are lining up to throw money at you
 
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davek said:
What, it's hardly asking for the moon on a stick to want an owner to inject cash into the squad (£50M - smallish injection for this day and age) on top of player trading to make the difference to on field fortunes.

Isn't that what entrepreneurs are supposed to do: speculate to accumulate?
Click to expand...

To be fair, he did inject 80 mill into the club.
 
davek said:
They are just a series of claims. 'Control': what control do we have now over Moshiri? You seem to be divesting all responsibility for the well being of the club into his hands like he;s some benefactor-patrician. I dont care who's investing and controlling the club company. Why should I care that an Iranian businessman has the full control over the reins rather than sharing them with other institutional investors? Do you think Daniel Levy and Joe Lewis don't share power with the banks who are involved in Spurs right now, for example? The claim that we're getting better borrowing arrangements I've heard for the last decade or so under Kenwright. It's not new.
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I give up. Life's too short.
 

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