6 + 2 Point Deductions

[kenada_blue]

I looked at Bournemouth’s transfers the other day. Surly they are going to be in trouble aswell soon. They have spend loads.

Every club cooks their books. They just have to be extra careful post EvertonGate

 

[kenada_blue]

So punish them. None of them are being punished at all. We know the issues have come from leadership.

Moshiri has been wanting out for years (I think this has been the 3rd exclusivity period with potential buyers since he bought us).

None of the board are even at the club anymore and weren’t even part of the hearing. So have all got off Scot free.

That doesn’t take away from the absolute tragedy of how it’s been managed by the PL and the random sanctioning process where there is zero transparency.

They said a fine wouldn't hurt our "wealthy owner". 10 points will do.

Was always going to be a precedent setter.

And it's runs along the same line as most laws in the UK for business owners. They get away Scott free while they put the business in admin, lay off thousands, underfund pension pots etc.

In the US they go to jail or face fines.

 

[John BCN]

A lot of talk on here about about the new Squad Cost Ratio rules coming in next season. In fact Masters stated at the Select Committee that it is still under consultation and would not in fact be introduced until the season after next (at the very earliest). He also mentioned a proposal that clubs in Europe could have a 70% limit, and those not in Europe a higher limit (80% if I recall correctly).

Below is from the Athletic

 

[Jacko93]

The IC's verdict was that Everton had acted recklessly by continuing to sign players even though we knew we had huge PSR issues. The IC's verdict was that we had misled the Premier League over Stadium funding.

The IC made clear that both the PL and EFL have a starting point that significant breaches of PSR mean a points deduction.

The biggest thing is that the way PL PSR works is that it is almost impossible to accidentally breach them. You have to act in a reckless manner.

Where abouts was this bit, as far I was aware, the IC was completely on its own in terms of judgement and sentencing. They had no starting point nor sanction framework to work on and what was suggested during the investigation through the back door by the PL, was rejected out of hand (though they broadly matched)

The only thing they took a lead from was the Sheffield case, which was an EFL charge that I believe did have a sanction framework.

The decision to deduct 10 points after rejecting all mitigations had absolutely no basis to it other than 3 people agreeing to it.

 

[Marius57]

They said a fine wouldn't hurt our "wealthy owner". 10 points will do.

Was always going to be a precedent setter

Exactly. Zero transparency about how they got to 10 points.

And going off precedent, the Scab 6 all got a fine despite wealthy owners. It’s a joke.

 

[arch stanton]

Every club cooks their books. They just have to be extra careful post EvertonGate

even the new proposed rules of wages:income , some payments out will be hidden and prevaricated by some clubs, set aside in different areas of club accounts that will not attract the football side of the business. We tried but fell foul (the Jimmy Carr scenario)

 

[ChrisPW75]

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I don't think they'll take on all of those proposals. It'll be too big a shift too soon for all clubs, including the top ones.

According to this they have already been in place for over 18 months now at the European level

Explainer: UEFA’s new Financial Sustainability regulations

We answer some of the key questions behind the new regulations, which will be introduced from June 2022.

www.uefa.com

 

[WestStandLower]

Maybe. But if you look at the EFL rules you can't be sanctioned on the same issue you've already been punished for. So if the PL took the Sheff Wednesday case as a blueprint for our first case, you'd think they'd be looking for guidance in the same area.

However, I still think the 10 points will stick and that will be that. Then flog Onana to hopefully balance the books for next year.

The whole question of double jeopardy is a real relevant argument. But should we be talking about a charge or the sanction?

I am far from convinced by arguments either way but one thing irrespective I think has to be factored in is that for two of the three years you have in been penalised.

I don’t think they will or even could ignore the 3 year rolling measure but if there is a guilty charge and if points deduction is the IC decision then say it’s deemed 10 points is correct for three years ( would have been more convenient if any points deduction were divisible by 3 ( 3 points, 6 points, 9 points and dare I even say 12 points ) then when you have already been charged and sanctioned for years 1&2 of the new three year charge and deduction should result in a maximum of 3 points

That said I don’t think FFP is a sound rule

 

[Jacko93]

A drop in the ocean?

See, this is what I mean. Fans have been conditioned to believe that losing this amount of money is acceptable.

Sorry, but as we have said, clubs at lower levels aren't allowed to do this. All this does is protect the elite few and by that I mean 20 to 30 clubs in English football.

As regards budgets, I'd be budgeting so that any level of finish in the league was a bonus and therefore, profit.

I know that's fantasy world thinking the way football clubs are run in the Prem. but as I said, I find it hard to get my head around any business being allowed to lose 105M in a three year period.

The PSR target is £0. The whole point of having the allowable limit of £(105m) over 3 years, is to allow teams to overspend to move forwards. Unfortunately, in football you have to speculate to accumulate, we have just been spectacularly poor in our speculation. Consider those losses as the equilvalent to a business loan. Many businesses that start up do so with a business loan, one that the bank feels is sustainable and repayable over a period of time. Businesses pay that back with their yearly profits. That's the point, the "loan" agreement has been preset for all PL businesses. In simple terms, we haven't turned a profitable business quick enough due to poor decisions. We spoke to the bank manager and pleaded our cases for mitigations as to why, and they rejected our case.

 

[kenada_blue]

---

According to this they have already been in place for over 18 months now at the European level

Explainer: UEFA’s new Financial Sustainability regulations

We answer some of the key questions behind the new regulations, which will be introduced from June 2022.

www.uefa.com

There's more money in our game and league than in Europe. We have 6 if the top 10 richest clubs, 11 of the top 20 in world football.

 

[kenada_blue]

The whole question of double jeopardy is a real relevant argument. But should we be talking about a charge or the sanction?

I am far from convinced by arguments either way but one thing irrespective I think has to be factored in is that for two of the three years you have in been penalised.

I don’t think they will or even could ignore the 3 year rolling measure but if there is a guilty charge and if points deduction is the IC decision then say it’s deemed 10 points is correct for three years ( would have been more convenient if any points deduction were divisible by 3 ( 3 points, 6 points, 9 points and dare I even say 12 points ) then when you have already been charged and sanctioned for years 1&2 of the new three year charge and deduction should result in a maximum of 3 points

That said I don’t think FFP is a sound rule

The law makers don't even know that answer

 

[Gilbert..]

The new Uefa rules that the league are looking towards, I think are even more restrictive than our current league ones. This is because the 70% ratio to income is not just wages. A club will be restricted to spending 70% of their turnover on wages AND transfer fees and agent payments. If you look at the wage ratio income now of the majority of clubs, teams either exceed it already in wages alone or if they don't they they will have nothing left for transfer fees. Player agents fees can also be 8 figures a season in some cases.

The new rules will hit us even harder I think.

And its been going on for years in truth. The CL changed from a straight knockout comp to a league format to protect clubs. I think i recall it was berlusconi who pushed for it after AC Milan got beat by Rosenborg one year and lost all the revenue for the rest of that season, so they changed it so more powerful clubs had a bit of insurance of not suffering from a bad day at the office.
Its all about self preservation and keeping anyone away from the top table.

 

[kenada_blue]

A lot of talk on here about about the new Squad Cost Ratio rules coming in next season. In fact Masters stated at the Select Committee that it is still under consultation and would not in fact be introduced until the season after next (at the very earliest). He also mentioned a proposal that clubs in Europe could have a 70% limit, and those not in Europe a higher limit (80% if I recall correctly).

Below is from the Athletic

View attachment 242610View attachment 242611

Which will reinforce the point....we will be the only club to ever get a 10 point sanction.

 

[Pootsy]

Where has the talk of an additional 6 point reduction come from ?

Did the IC now come up with the Punishment of 6 points for breaching PSR and 1 point for every £5m overspent? I think they can't charge us for the overspend but feel the 6 point for not turning the accounts around quicker is fair.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Coming on Centre firework to do some bits.