6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Tel001]

We've sold almost £300mill of players.

Yeah and?

The biggest problem we have had is signing dross , paying them heaps , them not playing or contributing and then leaving on a free.

Gordon, stones, Barkley, were nothing to do with mosh and the only decent profit we made on a player we signed since mosh came in is lukaku and you can offset the 50m bolasie cost against that because Im convinced we only signed him because he was Roma mate.

Actually gana was another successful piece of business.

But our recruitment is the main reason we are in the financial mess we are in now…

 

[witchdoc187]

We wouldn't have got a points deduction if we still had it.

Which is the point of the post. There's all that kinda of stuff going on to gain football advantages and get around their rules.

Then suddenly..."You can't capitalise commercial loans towards an infrastructure project and put them as losses etc" ends up being the one that catches a club out.

I was referring to the Putin money which I think is probably linked to usmanov

 

[Tel001]

If they left at the end of their contract the fee is amortarised to 0 so whilst no fee received did not theoretically lose.

The Siggi one is the one that we should have pushed as we were not allowed to play him but could not use him as a loss.

But we did, you can account for it any way you like but we lost 215m out of 217m in real cash…

The only team that can even be in the running of having the worst recruitment in the league with us is Man U. We have been shocking

 

[Mashtray]

I was referring to the Putin money which I think is probably linked to usmanov

What I dont understand about this whole thing is that when the war broke out, chelsea had to find a new owner and the whole world stopped as they were allowed to hear bids from party and the whole country is invested in the sale of the club, we had dine and dash immediately, taking the loss, we couldn't auction our stadium naming rights

 

[Tel001]

But the two are separate. We've done plenty to claw back poor transfer dealings if you look at that as a separate issue.

Everything else are affects of trying to build a £1billion stadium and Moshiri's ineptitude to tick correct boxes.

If we hadn’t been shocking at signing players we would be fine… not even good, just not shocking.

If we could have got a fee for 2 of them we would have scraped through.

We are currently borrowing to keep the lights and the microwave on at the training ground as it stands

 

[Tel001]

Is there not an argument that once charged for breaching the 3 year average that the whole period should start again? I mean, one disastrous season financially for any club could get you charges for 3 consecutive seasons

I agree but I guess they will just say to sell players… your best ones like… probably to the top 6 and for less than what they’re worth as everyone knows you’re desperate … all hail financial FAIR PLAY

 

[jazzy]

In theory the rules are so vague the PL can do anything they want. In terms of natural justice the argument that there’s a 75% overlap so the second punishment should at most be 25% of the first. If not it’s another reason to head to the courts.

The rules and the process are so flawed that us and Forest need to be making it clear we will cause as much disruption as necessary including going to court. The PL cannot afford a massive dispute that effects relegation and potentially threatens the start of next season.

Like I say the goal here- and it’s probably a get out for the PL for the mess they’ve created- is a negotiated settlement that can be approved by the clubs to allow everyone to move on, the rules to be improved, and the football to decide the outcome of the season.

Remind me , these flawed rules ( and they are very badly flawed ) , did we vote for them ?

Regardless of how badly flawed they may be I would be very surprised at any defence that in effect said the rule is badly drafted , especially when we voted in favour of it.

 

[Tel001]

That’s the whole reason for a rolling period though; one bad year (or year where you decide to spend big) and you can supposedly be frugal the next two years. Sort of makes sense if the rest of the framework wasn’t stupid. You can’t start from zero. But there should be a mechanism that lets you get back to compliance over a couple of years rather than expecting you to sell every single player and sack all staff.

We only found out first investigation found us guilty AFTER the next accounting period had finished, so didn’t have the chance to make a corrective behaviour. Thats just unfair.

(Realistically we would have known full well if we didn’t get through the first investigation, we’d automatically fail this time too.)

Was thinking that earlier… when did we actually get found guilty?

Was it after the window shut?

If so…. What are you meant to do to raise money and lower wages, sell players etc?

Literally couldn’t have complied with this year even if we wanted too… physically couldn’t do a thing

 

[jazzy]

Was thinking that earlier… when did we actually get found guilty?

Was it after the window shut?

If so…. What are you meant to do to raise money and lower wages, sell players etc?

Literally couldn’t have complied with this year even if we wanted too… physically couldn’t do a thing

That is a far better argument . However there is a fundamental tenant of English law that ignorance of the law ( or in this case , a failure to understand the law ) is no excuse.

 

[Tel001]

changing rules and not being fluid with communication to the club has got us into this. the premier league taking 9 months to get back to us over what we can or can't spend is ridiculous and now they trying to do us twice. a joke of a league protecting the big 6

My understanding is that they worked with us and did advise mosh that we were seriously risking P and S but he spent anyway …. They allowed it as we technically could have sold to balance the bills but we didn’t .

To make things worse mosh then went “ on the stand” so to speak and admitted it and said he done it because we had no midfield … idiot …

 

[neil999]

I think a second points deduction in the same season won't be approved, it will look terrible and I don't think a panel will do it

 

[Magus]

We had one of Putins bag men and by default Putin, laundering money through the club through a patsy.

Why do you think Arsenal didn`t want to go near Usmanov ?

We aren`t innocent by any means.

I find this a bit of a stretch given that until the outbreak of war Russian oligarchs were deeply embedded in the political establishment, especially the Conservative party, and both Usmanov and Moshiri had dual/British citizenship.

We know that Russian oligarchs money is suspect, but so does the government of the day, and they only turned when Putin's aggression forced them to act. Everton also acted quickly to sever those ties, which has in part placed us in this mess.

None of that excuses our poor financial management in exceeding the spending limits, but it seems that our Board thought that they had reasonable mitigation in place, and they misjudged the PL stance. For all that, this prospect of double-jeopardy does highlight the flaws in the PSR rules, and I do think we should fight them on that basis.

 

[jamieni]

I think a second points deduction in the same season won't be approved, it will look terrible and I don't think a panel will do it

Yeah I think it would be insane to punish the club twice in one season. They might hand us a deduction for next season. I imagine it all rests on appeal. If that is successful and we are arguing the same mitigation for the “new” breach then surely we can’t be punished for it either?

 

[caughtbythefuzz]

I think a second points deduction in the same season won't be approved, it will look terrible and I don't think a panel will do it

For what it's worth, I agree with you. But do we really think the PL and their "independent" panel think of how things look? They've been hiding in plain sight for years!

 

[hallamblue]

Was thinking that earlier… when did we actually get found guilty?

Was it after the window shut?

If so…. What are you meant to do to raise money and lower wages, sell players etc?

Literally couldn’t have complied with this year even if we wanted too… physically couldn’t do a thing

This is why we're so angry. Once they'd kicked our mitigation out we were always going to fail. We've obviously brought this up and asked the PL to bring in a no double jeopardy rule like the EFL but they haven't.